• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access.

    By joining you will gain full access to thousands of Videos, Pictures & Much More.

    Membership is absolutely FREE and registration is FAST & SIMPLE so please, Register Today and join one of the friendliest communities on the net!



    You must be at least 18 years old to legally access this forum.
  • Hello Guest,

    Thanks for remaining an active member on GayHeaven. We hope you've enjoyed the forum so far.

    Our records indicate that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not dismiss this notice & make your next post today by doing one of the following:
    • General Discussion Area - Engage in a conversation with other members.
    • Gay Picture Collections - Share any pictures you may have collected from blogs and other sites. Don't know how to post? Click HERE to visit our easy 3-steps tutorial for picture posting.
    • Show Yourself Off - Brave enough to post your own pictures or videos? Let us see, enjoy & comment on that for you.
    • Gay Clips - Start sharing hot video clips you may have. Don't know how to get started? Click HERE to view our detailed tutorial for video posting.
    As you can see there are a bunch of options mentioned in here and much more available for you to start participating today! Before making your first post, please don't forget to read the Forum Rules.

    Active and contributing members will earn special ranks. Click HERE to view the full list of ranks & privileges given to active members & how you can easily obtain them.

    Please do not flood the forum with "Thank you" posts. Instead, please use the "thanks button"

    We Hope you enjoy the forum & thanks for your efforts!
    The GayHeaven Team.
  • Dear GayHeaven users,

    We are happy to announce that we have successfully upgraded our forum to a new more reliable and overall better platform called XenForo.
    Any feedback is welcome and we hope you get to enjoy this new platform for years and years to come and, as always, happy posting!

    GH Team

Cardinal Raymond Burke: Gays...Are Just As Sinful As Murderers

W!nston

SuperSoftSillyPuppy
Staff member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
11,942
Reaction score
1,217
Points
159
Cardinal Raymond Burke: Gays, Remarried Catholics Are Just As Sinful As Murderers
HuffPost | Religious News Service | By David Gibson | 03/27/2015 3:14 pm EDT

20910503b1b45dd17ce8e220bf570fa7633d5960.jpg

Cardinal Raymond Burke

(RNS) When Pope Francis last year effectively demoted U.S. Cardinal Raymond Burke by moving him out of a senior post in the Vatican to a largely ceremonial role as head of a Rome-based Catholic charity, it was viewed as a way to sideline one of the pontiff’s most outspoken critics on the right.

But the move seems to have left Burke free to air his conservative — and pointed — views on efforts to change church practices, not that he was ever terribly hesitant about speaking his mind.

Now the American churchman has spoken out again, telling an interviewer that gay couples and divorced and remarried Catholics who are trying to live good and faithful lives are still like “the person who murders someone and yet is kind to other people.”

“If you are living publicly in a state of mortal sin there isn’t any good act that you can perform that justifies that situation: the person remains in grave sin,” Burke said in an interview with LifeSiteNews, a U.S.-based web service focused on battling abortion and promoting other conservative causes.

“And to give the impression that somehow there’s something good about living in a state of grave sin is simply contrary to what the (Catholic) Church has always and everywhere taught,” said Burke, who spoke to LifeSiteNews in Rome.

Asked if being “kind” and “generous” and “dedicated” is enough, Burke replied: “Of course it’s not. It’s like the person who murders someone and yet is kind to other people.”

The lengthy interview was published on Tuesday (March 24).

On the surface, Burke’s comments break little theological ground; the church has always taught that sin is sin, and some sins are especially serious. For example, cohabitation, homosexual relations and adultery (which is how the Catholic Church views the relations of a couple who are divorced and remarried without annulling the first marriage) are viewed as mortal sins, as is murder.

But comparing those situations in any context is unusual, and certainly out of step with the pastoral tone that Francis has set in his papacy. Moreover, reformers argue that a murderer — or almost any other sinner — can go to confession, receive absolution, and take Communion in a state of grace. But there is no such option for a gay person or those who are divorced and remarried, except permanent celibacy.

The cardinal’s comments take on added weight in the context of the increasingly heated debate that Francis opened over how the church should respond to rapid changes in family life in the modern world.

The issues were heatedly debated at a global summit of bishops and cardinals at the Vatican last October, and the debates have continued as both sides jockey for position ahead of a follow-up synod this October. Those who back reforms in church practices and attitudes — especially toward gay couples and those who are divorced or cohabiting — are opposed by those who see any changes as tantamount to undermining doctrine.

During last fall’s synod, several high-ranking churchmen spoke about the lives of unmarried or remarried couples as having value that the church should recognize.

Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, for example, repeatedly stressed that the church should “look at the person and not the sexual orientation.” He cited the case of a gay couple he knew in which one partner cared for the other through a long-term illness in a way that was “exemplary. Full stop.”

Similarly, Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich, a senior adviser to Francis, said that “one simply cannot say that a faithful homosexual relationship that has held for decades is nothing.”

“We just mustn’t lump things together and measure everything with the same yardstick, but must differentiate and take a closer look, which doesn’t mean that I endorse homosexuality as a whole,” he said.

But such language sounded alarm bells for traditionalists like Burke, who after the synod was named to the largely ceremonial post of patron of the Order of the Knights of Malta. In his earlier post in the Roman Curia, Burke was automatically included in the synod discussions; he will probably not take part in this fall’s meeting.

In this latest interview, he repeated his earlier claims that reformers were manipulating the synod discussions and waging a media campaign “to justify extra-marital sexual relations and sexual acts between persons of the same sex” that would undermine church teaching.

Burke, 66, has raised eyebrows, and made headlines, with previous comments. Earlier this year, he argued that the church has become too “feminized” and he blamed the introduction of altar girls more than 20 years ago for the decline in vocations to the church’s all-male priesthood.

The cardinal also blamed gay clergy for the church’s sexual abuse crisis, saying priests “who were feminized and confused about their own sexual identity” were the ones who molested children.

SOURCE
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
223
Points
0
When it comes to abortion we are to believe that all life is precious, and yet, the cardinal seems to attach no value what so ever to the lives of a murderer's victims.

Even if you accept that within the catholic church, homosexuality is a sin, it, unlike murder, is a victimless sin.

This man has clearly lost all contact with reality - I think his little red hat is on too tight!

B.
 

tonka

Super Vip
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
1,771
Reaction score
171
Points
63
I don't think there's a need to silence him. Let him rage on.
It just isolates his kind of thinking from the mainstream (including American Catholics).
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
223
Points
0
I don't think there's a need to silence him. Let him rage on.
It just isolates his kind of thinking from the mainstream (including American Catholics).

Oh totally - being able to say "a catholic bishop with his silly red had and dress says this shit - are you sure you want to accept the catholic party line on anything?" is very powerful.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake :)

B.
 

trencherman

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,035
Reaction score
14
Points
0
Extreme and wretched cussedness dressed in cardinal's robes.
 

Shelter

Super Vip
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
6,589
Reaction score
3,545
Points
116
Extreme and wretched cussedness dressed in cardinal's robes.

"Cussedness" this is really the best word to describe this "holy man".

But only one question - what did he do with all the child abusers of his "holy colleagues" for instance in Germany, in England, in Ireland and all over the world? The church and these "holy man" swept it "holy" under the carpet.
 

trencherman

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Messages
2,035
Reaction score
14
Points
0
"Cussedness" this is really the best word to describe this "holy man".

But only one question - what did he do with all the child abusers of his "holy colleagues" for instance in Germany, in England, in Ireland and all over the world? The church and these "holy man" swept it "holy" under the carpet.


Posted them in fresh parishes to wreak more havoc among the young. They should have used the old torture devices that the Holy Catholic Church encouraged developing on them. You wonder why hypocrisy is not one of the deadly sins.
 

Frenchgerman

Banned
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
176
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Posted them in fresh parishes to wreak more havoc among the young. They should have used the old torture devices that the Holy Catholic Church encouraged developing on them. You wonder why hypocrisy is not one of the deadly sins.

because all churches (or better even, religions) are experts at that !
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
223
Points
0
When Benedicti XVI resigned I remember Raymond Burke was in pole position to be elected Pope, he would have been perfect, a strong conservative full of himself :duh:

He would certainly have been a good choice to continue the path Ratsinger was trying to steer the church down. The fact that the cardinals chose his polar opposite is very interesting.

B.
 

fkboy1

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
806
Reaction score
36
Points
28
What a sad specimen of a human being!!
He needs to be reminded that their priests are even more sinful and deceitful than murderers!!!
 

Shelter

Super Vip
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
6,589
Reaction score
3,545
Points
116
What a sad specimen of a human being!!
He needs to be reminded that their priests are even more sinful and deceitful than murderers!!!

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:
Well spoken - thank you! That's my way of thinking!
 
Top