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Man stabs six people at Jerusalem gay pride parade

haiducii

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s4reutersm.jpg


An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man stabbed and wounded six participants, two of them seriously, in the annual Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem on Thursday, with police saying the suspect was jailed for a similar attack 10 years ago.

About 5,000 people celebrating the event were marching along an avenue when a man jumped into the crowd, apparently from a supermarket, and plunged a knife into some of the participants, witnesses said.

"We heard people screaming, everyone ran for cover, and there were bloodied people on the ground," Shai Aviyor, a witness interviewed on Israel's Channel 2, said.

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W!nston

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There was another interesting comment further on in that article:

The parade has long been a focus of tension between Israel's predominantly secular majority and the ultra-Orthodox Jewish minority, who object to public displays of homosexuality.

Many devout Jews, Muslims and Christians criticize homosexuality as an abomination of their beliefs. Gay marriages performed inside Israel are not recognized by the authorities.

Israel needs to recognize and legalize Gay Marriage Equality and treat their own people with respect even if the religious nut jobs there make sure their government never treat the Palestinians with respect.

There is something about the middle-eastern guys that is just so damned sexy. I know that sounds horrible to say in a thread about such violence but it's the truth. Them Palestinians are HAWT!

:devil:
 
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ChriPhenix

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Another psychopath using religion as justification for murder. It's quite ironic that the most heinous and abominable acts come from those who say they're following the will of their loving, holy gods.

Ugh.
 

W!nston

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And if you read the Old Testament of the Bible you will find a God full of anger, violence, vengeance, jealousy, envy, lust and other unsavory appetites that are labeled 'sins' if committed by humans. Hypocrisy on high! Hallelujah! Amen...
 

fatty

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It could have happened anywhere - another fool brainwashed by religion!
 

gb2000ie

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Vile posters celebrate stabbing at Jerusalem Pride:
http://anonym.to/?http://www.pinkne...osters-celebrate-stabbing-at-jerusalem-pride/

I really wonder how many people still thinks Israel is a gay friendly country. Maybe in Tel Aviv, but those ultra orthodox ones are like ISIS with ringlets...

Don't judge a whole country by their loons.

Did Fred Felps represent the US?

Does Anders Behring Breivik represent all Norwegians?

A much more important question is how did most Israelis respond to the murder and attempted murders? Were they disgusted by the whole ordeal? Similarly, do most Israelis find these posters sick?

I get the impression the extremists are a very vocal minority, not a reflection on the nation as a whole.

B.
 

gb2000ie

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you cannot argue like this, gb ! Because Israel, as a state, is violent. And the violence committed against others is daily !

I'm not sure the argument you are making stands up too well either. Should we have judged all Americans by the actions of the GW Bush administration?

I'm no fan of the Israeli government (what is the opposite of a fan?, what ever that is, I'm one of those), however, I will not assume that all Israelis agree with the actions of their government. In fact, I doubt even half of Israelis do. The problem with many of our democratic systems is that they result in governments that are not nearly as representative as they should be :(

In the USA, it's more a society problem.

And a warmongering problem. The USA exports murder on an even bigger scale than Israel :(

Fred Felps, the violence by discriminating against couples who want to marry, Matthew Shephard, the murder of trans (women), the churches who insult us, police forces assasinating black youth for lack respect, ... All these problems stem from a society who is violent per se and, above all, refuses to take action.

I don't agree Americans are violent per-se. America has a very vocal bullying minority of bigoted gun-weilding hate-mongers who get to have an un-representative effect on the country.

Speaking of which - funny how the loonies are dead keen to throw the 14th amendment under the bus now, but the 2nd amendment is sacrosanct.

We should not change the constitution to save lives, but it absolutely must be changed when it gets in the way of racist policies!

For my part, I would not feel safe anywhere in the US.
In Israel, I would not be feeling much better ...

I agree - I'm glad I live in neither country. However, I am also well aware that both countries are blessed with many very good people, and while they don't get to run the place, they are a majority in both countries.

B.
 

gb2000ie

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The problem is, Americans and Israelis are responsibles for their governments, by electing them.

Many of our election systems are so-called 'first past the post' systems - they ensure that the governments represent less than half the people. This is particularly bad in the UK system, and in the US system, where they also have rampant gerrymandering to make things even worse. More people voted for democratic members of congress in the last US election, and yet, congress has a republican majority ATM.

From my reading of the Wikipedia page, Israel uses a system of proportional representation, so you are probably right that Israel have the government they actually voted for.

And, yes, I'm sorry to say it, but GW Bush was relected, so yes the Americans (but only as a whole, as a society) are responsible for the reelection of Bush.

Bush almost certainly lost his first election, it was given to him by judges appointed by his dad. He definitely lost the popular vote, so less people voted for him thank for Al Gore, but because of the flaws in the archaic electoral college system, a judicially-caused miscount in one state was able to give him the election, despite getting less votes.

It is true that Bush won re-election for real (he actually got more votes), but the margin was very tight - he got 50.7% of the vote, so if you take into account the turnout, it is very likely that more people were against him that for him. You might argue that if you don't vote you are to blame, and you are, to some extent, right. However, there are also many people prevented from voting incorrectly in the US - they have a real problem with disenfranchisement, so a lot of those non-votes were defrauded of their vote.

George W Bush had a lot less support than you might think given that he served two terms. A look at his approval rating proves that he did not represent the people of the US very well: http://anon.projectarchive.net/?htt...residential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

Especially in the USA, imho, the problem of weapon control is a shame, a dishonor, a disgrace and a infamy (as you see, I don't even find the right word to express my disgust) for the country as a whole !

I agree - but 90% of people wanted compulsory background checks, but the Gerrymandered congress voted that down. That proves, very well, how broken American democracy is, and how illegitimate the government really is. They DO NOT represent the wishes of the majority of the American people!

B.
 

Shelter

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For my part, I would not feel safe anywhere in the US.
In Israel, I would not be feeling much better ...

I'm totally with you in both points!!! :thumbs up:

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:
 

gb2000ie

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You can argue, or better we can argue about the shortcomings, but in the end, we have to live with the results, sorry !

Yes, we have to live with the results, but we MUST bear in mind that in practice, governments often do NOT represent the majority of the people, even in a democracy.

You cannot assign blame to an entire nation for the actions of their government without taking into account the real problems in those nations democratic systems.

For example, you can't blame the majority of Britons for the actions of David Cameron, because his party only got a little over ONE THIRD of the votes (36.9%)!

B.
 

gb2000ie

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Nonetheless more than 50% voted for a party which would allow Cameron to get into that position. Every compromise is made with the mandate of the people who have elected their legislative. That is the point of the whole system.

Actually - no - the point of 'first past the post' is to keep the big parties in power and prevent small parties from rising.

You can't say that those who did not want either party 'chose' Cameron. They had Cameron INFLICTED on them by a REALLY unfair 'democratic' system.

That is part of a societies contract: as a collective they are responsible for their government, since nobody else can be. Of course there can be a broken system, but then it would be their job to do something. It would be the job of the citizens of that country (for example press, church, interest groups) to point this out and to pressure the government to change that. If that kind of protest does not exist or just exists rudimentary, one can be safe to say: it is everybodies responsibility that things go wrong.

For as long as I have watched British politics there HAS been pressure to change the flawed system, but, the only people with the power to change the loaded system are those who rely on it to stay in power. They have, and will continue, to fight to hold on to their democratically illegitimate power.

And about the american system being broken: they have the schizophrenic situation that single states still exist, which is basically the same situation as in the EU. While the system is more streamlined, there are still the regional interests of each state, which gives the military with its high budget the power to pressure them into decisions, for example when it comes to cutting exactly that budget. The question is, whether avoiding that and muting the interests of the region really would allow a more democratic approach. In fact I remember some of the posters in this thread cheering how much better that system was to get things done than what we have currently in the EU...

If you are referring to posts by me, I was saying the US CURRENCY is better run than the Euro - I was not talking about how they run their democracy.

American democracy has all the flaws of British democracy - first past the post, with the added blight of rampant Gerrymandering because the power to draw district lines rests with elected officials in many states.

The fact that the Dollar is better run than the Euro does not change the fact that American democracy is very bad at translating the will of the people into law. The fact the EU is even worse at translating the will of the people into law is also a very bad thing.

So while it is easy to always compare a hypothetical and perfect situation to the reality and talk about the shortcomings, it leaves the impression of somebody wanting to have the cake but also to eat it...

Sorry, but that is totally wrong. How, exactly, is pointing out that many 'democratic' systems are really bad at translating the will of the people into the make-up of the government having my cake and eating it?

The measure of a democratic system is how well the popular vote translates into seats in the legislative assembly, and, how well the opinions of the citizens translate into law.

No system is perfect, but different systems result in bigger and smaller gaps between what a democratic system should do, and what it actually does. My point is that not all democracies are actually that democratic - many have really big gaps between the will of the people and the makeup of the government.

The UK & US are great examples of broken democratic systems. That is why it is unfair to blame all Brits, or all Americans for the actions of their governments. If Britain had a true democracy, the Tories would not be in sole power in the UK. If the US had a true democracy, the Democrats would control the house of representatives today.

B.

B.
 
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