Hurricane Irma

topdog · Sep 9, 2017

Here is a photo of my late father-in-law's house in Key West:

I am afraid that by this time tomorrow there won't be much left of Key West - certainly all those beautiful wooden Conch houses of old town will be rubble.

Irma is essentially a 60 mile wide tornado surrounded by tropical force winds that extend for hundreds of miles. She has just been decimating the east side of the Caribbean all week.

Saint-Martin / Sint Maarten airport and Maho Beach where you could watch the planes land almost on top of your head has been smashed to pieces.

Puerto Rico has just under 1 million people without power.

My prayers are with everyone still in the path of this giant storm.

hhindd · Sep 10, 2017

Thats horrendously destructive, where will people go?
I looked up their options of a bomb detonation stopping it in its tracks, but its a no go!

slimjim · Sep 10, 2017

I've just been listening to the latest updates on Irma and Jose on the BBC. It sounds absolutely frightening - rain winds tornadoes. Here the Met Office has just issued a "weather warning" for parts of the UK for high winds - but we are talking of gusting of around 60 to 70mph! Like we should worry, I guess if you are in the Caribbean; Houston or Sth Florida that would feel like a gentle breeze in comparison

I cannot begin to imagine what it feels like to have that bearing down towards you. Stay safe everybody

haiducii · Sep 10, 2017

Stay safe, Floridians.

Jase · Sep 10, 2017

At my work we've been getting calls from customers in Florida suspending their accounts because of Irma. I know it's going to be bad, but I hope that people are safe and survive. As cliché as it sounds, things can be replaced... people can't.

camyoo · Sep 10, 2017

As a fourth generation Floridian, just want to say thank you all very much for your concern. Florida has withstood countless hurricanes over the milennia and will survive Irma as well, though it is going to be a little windy today.

slimjim · Sep 10, 2017

Well there is some good news. The BBC is reporting that Jose, which was heading towards the islands has now tracked harmlessly away to the north and Katie made landfall in gulf of mexico and has been downgraded to tropical storm

tonka · Sep 11, 2017

Just got a text from my brother, hunkered down in a hotel in Sarasota.
OK so far.

WBAB · Sep 12, 2017

I had plans to visit family and friends in Sarasota around the holidays. Now I'm not so sure I can keep those plans. Family still in shelters and no power restored yet. There's still time to repair and recover, but to what degree? It's a mess, I'm sure.

brmstn69 · Sep 13, 2017

Marriott Resorts charters ship to rescue guest stranded on St. Thomas island but leaves non-guest standing on the pier...

Survivors of Hurricane Irma were shocked to learn that the rescue boat sent by Marriott Resorts would only be taking Marriott guest to safety leaving non-guest to fend for themselves as Hurricane Jose approaches.
People were stunned as the boat left the dock with only half the seats filled. The crew even shut off the pier lights in an attempt to disperse the crowd. A spokesman for the charter company said the crew contacted Marriott corp. for permission to take the additional passengers aboard but were denied due to "liability issues"...
The Marriott issued a statement that the port authority would only allow those passengers listed on a manifest provided by the Marriott on board and blamed the situation on bureaucratic red tape...

Full story...
http://anon.projectarchive.net/?htt...on-guests-on-the-dock/?utm_term=.44e2f1a4bc4f

***Opinion***
The Captain of that ship should have said to Hell with regulations and taken the extra passengers. I'm no expert on maritime law, but I'm sure there are provisions in place to shield the Captain and crew when providing humanitarian aid. This Captain failed his duty plain and simple...

gorgik9 · Sep 13, 2017

brmstn69 said:
Marriott Resorts charters ship to rescue guest stranded on St. Thomas island but leaves non-guest standing on the pier...

Survivors of Hurricane Irma were shocked to learn that the rescue boat sent by Marriott Resorts would only be taking Marriott guest to safety leaving non-guest to fend for themselves as Hurricane Jose approaches.
People were stunned as the boat left the dock with only half the seats filled. The crew even shut off the pier lights in an attempt to disperse the crowd. A spokesman for the charter company said the crew contacted Marriott corp. for permission to take the additional passengers aboard but were denied due to "liability issues"...
The Marriott issued a statement that the port authority would only allow those passengers listed on a manifest provided by the Marriott on board and blamed the situation on bureaucratic red tape...

Full story...
http://anon.projectarchive.net/?htt...on-guests-on-the-dock/?utm_term=.44e2f1a4bc4f

***Opinion***
The Captain of that ship should have said to Hell with regulations and taken the extra passengers. I'm no expert on maritime law, but I'm sure there are provisions in place to shield the Captain and crew when providing humanitarian aid. This Captain failed his duty plain and simple...

There's a very ancient basic principle in western law stating that need and necessity breaks law, meaning - in this context - that if there's a law which under normal cir cum

stances would prevent a certain kind of action, then - to hell with this legislation. Need and necessity breaks law. Hurricane Irma is by definition not normal cir cum

stances.

The law becomes: Do whatever you have to do to bring people in safety!

Shelter · Sep 13, 2017

In German penology is a paragraph called DENIAL OF ASSISTANCE (§ 323 c) which is reading:
(1) Wer bei Unglücksfällen oder gemeiner Gefahr oder Not nicht Hilfe leistet, obwohl dies erforderlich und ihm den Umständen nach zuzumuten, insbesondere ohne erhebliche eigene Gefahr und ohne Verletzung anderer wichtiger Pflichten möglich ist, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.

Who in cases of misadventures or mean danger or distress will not render his help, although this would be necessary and would be possible for him because of the cir cum

stances, especially without significant danger for himself and without breach of other important duties, will be punished with a prison term of at least one year or with a financial penalty.

topdog · Sep 13, 2017

brmstn69 said:
Marriott Resorts charters ship to rescue guest stranded on St. Thomas island but leaves non-guest standing on the pier...
The Captain of that ship should have said to Hell with regulations and taken the extra passengers. I'm no expert on maritime law, but I'm sure there are provisions in place to shield the Captain and crew when providing humanitarian aid. This Captain failed his duty plain and simple...

Nope - the Captain would have been fired. To take the passengers someone would have to assume the liability. That would either be Marriott, or the ship owners. Since the Captain is neither, (he is an employee), he is not in a position to assume liability.

Of course, he still could have done it. But he would have been fired. Maybe afterward he could appeal on some kind of grounds like a ship responding to an SOS. But that would be the legal battle he would have to face. Maybe the company would be forced to take him back, but it wouldn't be pleasant because they would still view him as insubordinate and not to be trusted.

The fault here is with Marriott. They should have assumed the liability as a humanitarian gesture. But corporations aren't set up for that kind of emergency spur-of-the-moment courageous decision-making. It would have been surprising if they had been capable of pulling it off.

hhindd · Sep 14, 2017

Stanley Milgram's experiment

I agree topdog, but it brings to mind Stanley Milgram's experiment, lamented by Peter Gabriels track 'Milgram's 37' (we do what we're told).
Individuals submit “Obedience to Authority,” & 'my hands are tied' syndrome, even though they are not physically tied!
Very difficult, but ultimately people have to live with the decision, forced upon them.

brmstn69 · Sep 15, 2017

topdog said:

Nope - the Captain would have been fired. To take the passengers someone would have to assume the liability. That would either be Marriott, or the ship owners. Since the Captain is neither, (he is an employee), he is not in a position to assume liability.

Of course, he still could have done it. But he would have been fired. Maybe afterward he could appeal on some kind of grounds like a ship responding to an SOS. But that would be the legal battle he would have to face. Maybe the company would be forced to take him back, but it wouldn't be pleasant because they would still view him as insubordinate and not to be trusted.

The fault here is with Marriott. They should have assumed the liability as a humanitarian gesture. But corporations aren't set up for that kind of emergency spur-of-the-moment courageous decision-making. It would have been surprising if they had been capable of pulling it off.

Click to expand...

As I said, "I'm no expert in maritime law" but, what I do know is that the Captain has the final word over anyone, including the boats owner. Interfering with crew performing their duties in an emergency is against the law. Even the owners of private yachts are subject to the Captains authority when at sea. Yes, he could have been fired when he returned to port, but he also would have grounds for wrongful termination.

Hurricane Irma

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