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Dont ask dont tell

I

Irishman25

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A historic day ladies and gents
the US senate decided, or should i say the Republicans in the senate decided to fillabuster the militarly bill
Meaning it was never voted on and therefore never passed
Even though congress passed the senate has defeated it

This bill is more than the repeal of Dont Ask Dont Tell, its the militaries budget for next year lol
so in their ambition to keep gays out of the military, they are actually cutting the entire military off from funding.... gawd i hope those serving start to conserve ammo, they might run out next year!
wait what am i saying, they cant pay the soldiers to fire them next year... wait how will they get home?? should there be a rock concert or something.. to pay for flights......

anyways yes its sooooooooooo funny they are being absolutely morones about it all
i watched an editorial about it on mbc, its great and i thought i share it
its class
and guess what, she has dare i sait it... FACTS oh gawd no not FACTS!!
lol

http://anonym.to/?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#39298345
 

brmstn69

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Written by Bill Maher on October 9, 2009...

New Rule: Everyone deserves equal rights. That's why they're called "equal" and "rights." Tomorrow night President Obama will speak before a gay rights group, and on Sunday there will be a massive gay rally in Washington, or as I call it, the Million Mo March. Which makes this weekend the perfect time for Obama to announce he's repealing "don't ask, don't tell" and committing to a full-throated endorsement of gay marriage. One, because it's the right thing to do and two, because it will throw the conservative base into such a frenzied, pants-shitting panic that they'll drop all that BS about death panels and socialism and let us all get some actual work done.

But of course that's not going to happen. I can tell you what the president is going to tell his audience tomorrow: How much he supports them. How much he agrees with them. And how he wishes he was President so he could help them out. But here's the thing about being president. There isn't a lot you can do without either Congress, Oprah or Goldman Sachs behind you.New Rule: Everyone deserves equal rights. That's why they're called "equal" and "rights." Tomorrow night President Obama will speak before a gay rights group, and on Sunday there will be a massive gay rally in Washington, or as I call it, the Million Mo March. Which makes this weekend the perfect time for Obama to announce he's repealing "don't ask, don't tell" and committing to a full-throated endorsement of gay marriage. One, because it's the right thing to do and two, because it will throw the conservative base into such a frenzied, pants-shitting panic that they'll drop all that BS about death panels and socialism and let us all get some actual work done.

But of course that's not going to happen. I can tell you what the president is going to tell his audience tomorrow: How much he supports them. How much he agrees with them. And how he wishes he was President so he could help them out. But here's the thing about being president. There isn't a lot you can do without either Congress, Oprah or Goldman Sachs behind you. But there is one thing the president can do with the stroke of a pen: He can let gays serve openly in the military. It's called an executive order. Harry Truman wrote one in 1948 for blacks in the military, and that was that.

"Don't ask, don't tell" has always been bad policy that was made out of a bullshit political compromise. You know, like you're doing now with health care. It never made sense to begin with: "Here in the Army we're all about honor. And trusting the man next to you. Now lie to my face about your sexuality, Johnson, or I'll report you behind your back." But forget all the good arguments for repeal, like because it was promised to us in the campaign or because it gets lonely on a submarine. Do it because it'll make Rush Limbaugh explode like a bag full of meat dropped from a helicopter. Do it because it'll make Sarah Palin go rogue in her pants.

Because here's the thing about today's conservatives: they're not bright. They can't keep a lot of ideas in their head at once. And by "a lot" I mean "two." If we can get them all worked up about fighting the gay menace, it will siphon away all that crazy, right wing, town-hall energy from all the other big issues they've been fighting. The tea-baggers don't know what the word "socialism" means. But they do know what the word "gay" means, because their hairdresser explained it to them once, and they don't like it. They will be drawn to it like a moth to a flamer. Bush was practically re-elected on a promise to keep boys from kissing. Which is ridiculous, because if you want to stop gays from having sex, wouldn't you let them get married?

But seriously, the sheer rage of the tea-baggers can be so easily redirected that some times I wonder if Rush doesn't just spin a giant wheel of hate every morning to come up with ACORN! William Ayers! Birth certificate! It's like faking throwing a stick for the dog. "War on Christmas." "Obama's talking to school children." And "gay" is the easiest stick to throw.

Health care and the environment are complicated, but it's not hard to keep track of the places that God allows you to put your pee-pee. I mean, you can count those places on one hand. And that hand isn't something you should be using either. A year ago, if you had asked your average wing-nut neighbor what he thought about health care reform, he would have shrugged his shoulders and gone right back to eating his Moon Pie. But he's pissed-off about it now, why? Because it's in their nature to be pissed-off. They have a pre-existing condition called the Conniption Fits. The tea-baggers have taught us all an important lesson in modern politics: If you want to be taken seriously, act like a fucking loony-tune.

In fact, let me explain how the right-wing mind works: wing-nuts get up in the morning, get their "news" from Fox or Drudge, and then spend all morning drinking coffee and getting all worked up about whatever Fox and Drudge tell them to get worked up about. "Mexicans - Grrr! Socialism - Grrr! Van Jones - I don't know who he is, but sure... Grrrrrr!" By the time Rush comes on at noon, they're ready to just start demanding we build a wall around Andy Dick. And when Glenn Beck shows up at five, they're seeing red - right through the blue from the Viagra.

But while Glenn is busy explaining to his viewers that when he cries it's a butch thing, Obama and the Democrats can sweep in under the gaydar and pass real health care and real climate change bills. This is how we fight fire with Fire Island. When Obama speaks tomorrow, he should not only revoke "don't ask, don't tell," but also change our military's slogan to "An Army of Buns." And starting next year, gay busing. Yes, if there aren't any gay families in your community, we'll bring them to you. Your field hockey team can thank us later.

And when they get out there on Sunday, Gay Nation also needs to do everything in their power to scare the hell out of right-wing homophobes. I want to see you guys rollerblading down the Mall in nothing but a speedo and a nun's habit, holding a sparkler in one hand and a penis popsicle in the other. But there is one thing the president can do with the stroke of a pen: He can let gays serve openly in the military. It's called an executive order. Harry Truman wrote one in 1948 for blacks in the military, and that was that.

"Don't ask, don't tell" has always been bad policy that was made out of a bullshit political compromise. You know, like you're doing now with health care. It never made sense to begin with: "Here in the Army we're all about honor. And trusting the man next to you. Now lie to my face about your sexuality, Johnson, or I'll report you behind your back." But forget all the good arguments for repeal, like because it was promised to us in the campaign or because it gets lonely on a submarine. Do it because it'll make Rush Limbaugh explode like a bag full of meat dropped from a helicopter. Do it because it'll make Sarah Palin go rogue in her pants.

Because here's the thing about today's conservatives: they're not bright. They can't keep a lot of ideas in their head at once. And by "a lot" I mean "two." If we can get them all worked up about fighting the gay menace, it will siphon away all that crazy, right wing, town-hall energy from all the other big issues they've been fighting. The tea-baggers don't know what the word "socialism" means. But they do know what the word "gay" means, because their hairdresser explained it to them once, and they don't like it. They will be drawn to it like a moth to a flamer. Bush was practically re-elected on a promise to keep boys from kissing. Which is ridiculous, because if you want to stop gays from having sex, wouldn't you let them get married?

But seriously, the sheer rage of the tea-baggers can be so easily redirected that some times I wonder if Rush doesn't just spin a giant wheel of hate every morning to come up with ACORN! William Ayers! Birth certificate! It's like faking throwing a stick for the dog. "War on Christmas." "Obama's talking to school children." And "gay" is the easiest stick to throw.

Health care and the environment are complicated, but it's not hard to keep track of the places that God allows you to put your pee-pee. I mean, you can count those places on one hand. And that hand isn't something you should be using either. A year ago, if you had asked your average wing-nut neighbor what he thought about health care reform, he would have shrugged his shoulders and gone right back to eating his Moon Pie. But he's pissed-off about it now, why? Because it's in their nature to be pissed-off. They have a pre-existing condition called the Conniption Fits. The tea-baggers have taught us all an important lesson in modern politics: If you want to be taken seriously, act like a fucking loony-tune.

In fact, let me explain how the right-wing mind works: wing-nuts get up in the morning, get their "news" from Fox or Drudge, and then spend all morning drinking coffee and getting all worked up about whatever Fox and Drudge tell them to get worked up about. "Mexicans - Grrr! Socialism - Grrr! Van Jones - I don't know who he is, but sure... Grrrrrr!" By the time Rush comes on at noon, they're ready to just start demanding we build a wall around Andy Dick. And when Glenn Beck shows up at five, they're seeing red - right through the blue from the Viagra.

But while Glenn is busy explaining to his viewers that when he cries it's a butch thing, Obama and the Democrats can sweep in under the gaydar and pass real health care and real climate change bills. This is how we fight fire with Fire Island. When Obama speaks tomorrow, he should not only revoke "don't ask, don't tell," but also change our military's slogan to "An Army of Buns." And starting next year, gay busing. Yes, if there aren't any gay families in your community, we'll bring them to you. Your field hockey team can thank us later.

And when they get out there on Sunday, Gay Nation also needs to do everything in their power to scare the hell out of right-wing homophobes. I want to see you guys rollerblading down the Mall in nothing but a speedo and a nun's habit, holding a sparkler in one hand and a penis popsicle in the other.


As Mr. Maher has pointed out, Obama can end DADT with the stroke of a pen by signing an executive order, without the approval of the Senate or Congress. The only problem is him reaching into his trousers to find the balls to do so...:angry:
 
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lhardwick69

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well if gay dont want to serve in military say you are gay--if a str8 person decided he didnt want to join military he can say hes gay--and the one thng that still amazes me to this day--they dont want gay marriages gays in military --but they dont hesitate to take taxdollars out of my gay ass paycheck
 

owen

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Sorry, but Obama lost me when he allowed Rick Warren to deliver an invocation at his inauguration. Unforgivable. As to the other issues, Obama is all hat and no cattle.
 

topdog

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Yesterday in the US Senate there was movement on DADT - and it is bad news and somewhat hopeful news.

Just a review: As of yesterday morning, the DADT repeal was part of the bill that has all the yearly budget for the military. It was passed by the House of Representatives in the summer. It needed to be passed by the Senate, and Republicans have been holding it up.

So, here's what happened yesterday:

  • Democrats were negotiating with Republicans to get the needed votes. Those discussions broke down.
  • Democrats brought the military budget up for a vote anyway, and it was defeated.
  • A Republican who supports the repeal of DADT put forward the repeal as a seperate stand-alone bill.
  • Several Republicans have vowed to support DADT repeal - but not until they get all the tax cuts they want.
  • President Obama negotiated a compromise with Republicans that gives them their tax cuts.
  • Democrats in the House are balking at Obama's compromise and vowing to block Republican tax cuts.
  • The clock is ticking - there is only one week left in this Congress.

So, DADT has been swept up in the Democrat vs. Republican tax debate and may be knocked off the schedule because of them - or maybe not. :duh: Stay tuned.

UPDATE 12/14 - A stand-alone bill repealing DADT (identical to the one put forward in the Senate last Thursday) was introduced in the House today. So the paperwork is there - but they still have to schedule a vote in both houses and there is precious little time left. We'll see...

UPDATE 12/17 - House PASSED DADT repeal. Senate has a vote to close debate tentatively scheduled for Saturday. Which means that the final vote on Sunday could be the last hurdle to clear. I'm afraid to get hopes too high - there is a ton of stuff they are trying to get out the door and DADT could be bumped out by another issue.
 
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topdog

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From The Washington Post:

'Don't ask, don't tell' bill clears Senate procedural vote
By Ed O'Keefe
Updated 11:51 a.m. ET

The Senate voted Saturday to proceed to debate on a bill ending the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, putting the campaign to end the ban on gay men and lesbians one vote away from completion.

It's going to happen! ;)
 
S

Stoic

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Senate Repeals ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’

WASHINGTON — The Senate on Saturday struck down the ban on gay men and lesbians serving openly in the military, bringing to a close a 17-year struggle over a policy that forced thousands of Americans from the ranks and caused others to keep secret their sexual orientation.

So after Obama signs it, we get more military gay pornstars? :D
 

topdog

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:dancing::thumbs up::cheers::hug::wave:

It's over!!! My gay nephew just went into the US Army this past year - I am so happy that he won't be trapped in that horrible policy.
 
S

smallsleepyrascalcat

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I think the Republicans who voted for the repeal of DADT need a biiiiig hug :D

Or at least a "Well done boys and girls!"

I didn't expect anything else then the repeal from the Democrats, so they don't deserve anything because they just did their jobs. ;P

Eat this Tea-Party assholes!
 

ritsuka

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Unfortunately I think even with this being passed and signed into law, robert gates et. all are still going to delay the full implementation of the policy for as long as possible.
 

topdog

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It will take a while (I expect about a year), but that is by design.
  • Military comes up with a transition plan
  • Obama and Gates sign off
  • Transition implementation (training, policy changes) begins
  • 60 days from sign off the ban is formally lifted
  • New HR policies go into effect (covering gay partners, housing, insurance, etc.)

The whole point of doing it through Congress is to allow for a thought out transition out of the DADT policy. (As opposed to the courts throwing it out, which would legally force sudden change.)

Obama is going to ask the Pentagon to stop prosecutions and discharges as soon as possible. (Gates has already stopped processing discharges - none since August.)
 
S

smallsleepyrascalcat

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Unfortunately I think even with this being passed and signed into law, robert gates et. all are still going to delay the full implementation of the policy for as long as possible.

Interesting pow...

As far as I remember Gates was one of those in favor to lift the ban.
 

topdog

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Does the repeal have a retroactive effect?

No - if you were discharged under DADT you are still out. (But you might be able to reapply and get back in once the ban is gone.) However those currently under investigation will probably see everything dropped. I seriously doubt that we will see anyone discharged from now on.


What does the Tea-Party movement have to do with it?

While individuals in the Tea Party groups probably have opinions, the TP movement as a whole tried to stay away from social issues (gays, abortion, etc.) and concentrate on taxes, debt, and smaller government.
 
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ritsuka

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Robert Gates was in favor of the repeal, but only if he was still allowed to take as long as possible to implement it. I agree that this does fly in the face of the tea party, though, which have a strong conservative/anti-gay/anti-environment/christian social voice.

I think legally forcing sudden change is a much better thing than allowing the pentagon/obama administration to drag their feet for another year+; but as with all things, they prefer to let injustices go on for as long as possible.
 
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topdog

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... I think legally forcing sudden change is a much better thing than allowing the pentagon/obama administration to drag their feet for another year+; but as with all things, they prefer to let injustices go on for as long as possible.

I certainly appreciate you perspective from a moral point of view. And I think that the Obama administration does as well, which is why Gates halted all discharges in September and why I expect to see existing prosecutions dropped.

I would just add that ending DADT is more than just saying, "OK, gays - you can stay."

Each branch of the US military has it's own volumes of policies. procedures, and regulations. This change will impact those, and they are already going through the material and finding the things that will have to be altered. For example:
  • There needs to be consequences for any discrimination based on sexual orientation.
  • There will need to be some way for gays to have a voice and give feedback up the chain of command - especially during the initial years.
  • They need to figure out how to handle benefits and housing for gays with partners. (That would be much easier if gay marriage was legal - but since it is not they have to figure out what constitutes a permanent gay union.)
  • They need to update harassment guidelines and training.
  • Is there any legitimate exceptional case for discriminating against gays, like submarines? (Probably not - but you can bet someone is going to try to make the case.)

All of this is just the practical stuff that is part of implementing a policy change that is this profound. And it all has to be identified, written, circulated, and approved. (In addition, if the military doesn't have the manpower or expertise do all of this, it will be contracted to civilians. That means a an open bidding process before the contract can be given out.)

If there is any "foot dragging", I expect it to come from politicians, rather than the military. If Congress decides to get involved in the particulars, then that could be a mess. The Department of Defense largely just wants to get this all out of the way and get on with mammoth tasks they are already trying to handle.
 
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