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Supreme Court REJECTS Appeal By Anti-Gay Kentucky County Clerk Kim Dav

fkboy1

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gb2000ie

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I think the pope is under the delusion the church is above the state. That was true in the middle ages, but not today in the 21st century.

Public officials have to serve the whole public or resign.

B.
 

W!nston

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The wolf shows a little of his true self.

As I said in the other thread regarding the only meeting on the Family Agenda during the US visit by the wolf in sheep's clothing he and his henchmen are vile, hypocritical bigots.

I had not yet read this news story. Thanks for posting it here RNL. Maybe some of the other members who are so quick to defend this megalomaniac will read this post and then be open minded enough to see what lies beneath the veneer this bigot wears.

It makes me even more proud of President Obama's words and actions in the Gay Equality Movement.

#Gay Lives Matter

:D
 
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I just don't understand all this drama!! That creature just needs to hear 2 words...."YOU'RE FIRED"....and that would be the end of story!! Why is this trash getting so much attention....none of which it deserves.....and why are the authorities wasting time??? Just fine that loon a couple of million bucks and kick out its sorry ass!

Fkboy1...I was thinking the same thing and thought for a moment that is it possibly that I am the only one on this forum that sees it this way???...I just can't wrap my head around why this woman is getting all of this lead way from breaking the law as opposed if it was someone else...they would have instantly threw the gavel at them without hesitation...case closed...she can only get away with what is being allowed in my opinion...this is just crazy to me...:no:
 

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In the meanwhile, aboard the papal plane....

--Govt. workers have right to refuse gay marriage licenses: pope--

aswrd.jpg

Pope Francis talks aboard the papal plane while en route to Italy September 28, 2015.



SOURCE

All according to script.

Yet even in this forum there are many people, who give credence to this coven of parasites, led by Jesuit dressed in white.
 
H

HustleMe15

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Kim Davis Wins Award

Did you read today that she won the "Cost of Discipleship" award from the Family Research Council and presented at the Values Voter Summit in Washington D.C.? Just fucking disgusting!!

She was compared to Abraham Lincoln (16th President of the United States) Rosa Parks (the First Lady of Civil Rights) and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (Civil Rights Leader). How anyone can compare her to them is beyond me, and these people want to lead the U.S.!

Lincoln took the country through the Civil War, Parks and King worked to give equality to a minority. How does that the fuck compare to BLOCKING the minority equality that was just granted by the U.S. Supreme Court?

I respect her right to her religious beliefs. But because she was an ELECTED official when her beliefs went against the what she was ELECTED to do, then she should have either just sucked it up, or resigned. I would have greater respect for her had she simply resigned. Now she has turned into a media circus. At least from the story I get that she was at least somewhat modest about it.

This world would be so much better if everyone would just admit that there is no God!

And how about Ben Carson saying that he wouldn't mind a Muslim as President if they first changed the Koran? Well, while we are at it since we just gave marriage equality, how about we go and edit the Bible. Carson is an idiot. The Democrats and Independents and better get out and vote for either Sanders or Clinton in droves. I'll take either one of them 10 times over before someone on the the other side.

And with Scott Walker dropping out you realize that the Top 3 now have NO political experience? People are finally waking up to the fact that maybe not having a life long political experience is what we need. This is going to be an interesting election, but (Gay)Heaven forbid it is a Republican that wins.
 

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The Rosa Parks comparison REALLY irritates me. She's no Rosa Parks, she's the fucking bus driver!
 

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Fashion plate

Search for "Cardinal Burke" on Google Image if you want to see the Grand Wizard of humility. Lots of stunning outfits. Or repulsive, depending on your point of view. Don't miss Benedict XVI wearing the Triregnum (triple crown or tiara) alongside the Archbishop of Canterbury at Westminster Abbey. Found this on the Net: "Use of the Tiara, a ritual during solemn ceremonies, was abandoned during the Papacy of Paul VI." Thank God! 'Cuz it looks like a beehive. LOL.
 
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bigsal

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Let's not get fooled by the headline, which butchers the actual facts beyond recognition and once more puts the ideal of journalism to shame.

Actually the pope just states that conscience trumps state. He widens the context significantly that way, as in that case one could apply it as well on e.g. the Third Reich, and is by far not limited to a religious issue.
While this means he evaded answering the question, it also shows an ability to zoom out of the individual case and to observe the implications on other levels, something activists often are not capable off and leads progressive people too often into an endless marathon of futile changes.

Also I don't think the problem was that the clerk just did not issue the licenses herself, but that she brought her whole office into the situation that those licenses were not issued at all. Which marks an important difference to the situation the pope described. At no point a clerk was forced to issue a license, the problem was her interference, at no point the pope spoke out in favour of that interference.

You should do to the politician, you always manage to contextualize the discussion to your advantage. Here in Italy we say: "do devil's advocate"

Here the conscience centrate little or nothing, if this woman, struck by lightning on the road to Damascus as Paul, does not want to go against his principles, he leaves his position and joined the army of salvation or some other congregation. Until she is paid by the government or public administration, must abide by the rules.

The consciences let's leave them to those who own one, clean.
 

bigsal

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Search for "Cardinal Burke" on Google Image if you want to see the Grand Wizard of humility. Lots of stunning outfits. Or repulsive, depending on your point of view. Don't miss Benedict XVI wearing the Triregnum (triple crown or tiara) alongside the Archbishop of Canterbury at Westminster Abbey. Found this on the Net: "Use of the Tiara, a ritual during solemn ceremonies, was abandoned during the Papacy of Paul VI." Thank God! 'Cuz it looks like a beehive. LOL.

Is from the pontificate of John XXIII that tries to quantify the wealth of the state Vatican, without being able to establish, obviously excluding the works of art, whose value is priceless.

On one thing they were all agreed, it is the richest state in the world.

And to think that Jesus Christ, in its time, has cast out the merchants from the temple
 

bigsal

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Because context does matter when judging a quote or action. And context provides a better foundation for an argument than purely relative moral, ethical or emotional opionions which try to appear absolute.

My favourite example is probably Uncle Tom's Cabin. If you judge the merrits of this book, you can't take the same measure as if judging a book written today: it would seem patronising and racist. But when seen in the original context in a world which was way, way, waaaay less progressive than the content of that book, it was the opposite on an almost revolutionary level.

How would you deal with this case when just thinking in absolutes based on personal belief? Would you either deny the historical merrit and call the author a racist and try to make it disappear? Or would you acknowledge it and allow to read it in schools?

This is why context matters and why it can make sense to agree and disagree to the same things depending on the background in either case.

You can use all the fine words imaginable, but the Catholic Church is indefensible, and I can say personally, since I've lived inside for many years.

Then one is free to believe what he wants to, on this there is no doubt, given that the vast majority of the world population are believers and well indrottinata by various religions.
 

gb2000ie

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You can use all the fine words imaginable, but the Catholic Church is indefensible, and I can say personally, since I've lived inside for many years.

I'm not going to go into details, but because of where I work, I get a near-front-row view of the Roman Catholic Church in action.

What I see is a very grey organisation. Not black, and most certainly not white, but defintiely not a cartoon villain. The church is made up of many parts, and the vast majority of the people within it are trying to make this world a better place. I think they are miss-guided, but the vast majority of them are not evil. One thing that is notable though, is that the bad apples do seem to rise to the top quicker than the good ones. Mind you, I see that in corporate management too, so that's more a reflection on humanity than on the RCC!

B.
 

bigsal

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I'm not going to go into details, but because of where I work, I get a near-front-row view of the Roman Catholic Church in action.

What I see is a very grey organisation. Not black, and most certainly not white, but defintiely not a cartoon villain. The church is made up of many parts, and the vast majority of the people within it are trying to make this world a better place. I think they are miss-guided, but the vast majority of them are not evil. One thing that is notable though, is that the bad apples do seem to rise to the top quicker than the good ones. Mind you, I see that in corporate management too, so that's more a reflection on humanity than on the RCC!

B.

That there are good people in the Catholic community it is unquestioned, even here in Italy, but they are very few.

I could also cite the priests who are in the front line against injustice and fight mafia and poverty, but also in this case, are "extremely rare." Besides, they are frowned upon by the "staff" of the Vatican.

Most of the members of the church is near to the powers and lobbies (especially mafia), for example the magnificent funeral at Boss Casamonica, celebrated recently in Rome.

Bergoglio is the head of the church by two and a half years, not a few. In two and a half years in essence nothing has changed, apart from his bombastic announcements, not followed by concrete facts.

Unlikely to change anything. The church browse in wealth, in power and in the greatest privilege imaginable. Who rinucerebbe to everything? Certainly not a Jesuit.
 

W!nston

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Kentucky governor: Kim Davis’ statements show ‘absurdity’
MSNBC | By Pete Willaims | 09/30/15 01:09 PM

Kentucky Gov. Steven Beshear, urging a federal judge to dismiss a lawsuit filed against him by Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, says her legal claims “demonstrate the absurdity” of her position.

In court documents filed late Tuesday, Beshear argued that because he never ordered county clerks to do anything in issuing marriage licenses, her lawsuit against him has no merit.

The courtroom developments continued to unfold, as she and her lawyers disclosed that Davis met briefly with Pope Francis last week during his US visit. “He told me before he left to stay strong,” she said.

Davis refused to issue any marriage licenses after the US Supreme Court ruled in June that states must allow same-sex couples to wed. Taking part in any way in the marriage of gays and lesbians, she said, would violate her religious beliefs.

After both gay and straight couples sued her, a federal judge ordered her to either issue the licenses herself or allow her deputies to do so.

Separately, Davis sued the governor and another state official claiming that Gov. Beshear “took it upon himself … to set and announce new

Kentucky marriage license policies and command county clerks to abide by such policies.” Those statements, her lawyers said, had the effect of “specifically targeting clerks like Davis who possess certain religious beliefs about marriage.”

Lawyers for Beshear said his letter of June 26 merely informed county clerks of the Supreme Court ruling and added that Kentucky will abide by it. But even if he had not sent the letter, the ruling would still obligate county clerks to issue licenses to same-sex couples, the lawyers said.

They disputed Davis’ claim that the governor could have directed the state to issue marriage licenses, relieving Davis and other clerks of the responsibility.

“Davis is simply wrong,” they said. “Neither the governor” nor the other state official she sued “is responsible for setting or enforcing marriage licensing policy,” which is the province of the state legislature.

The notion that the governor could require licenses to be issued on his authority “demonstrates the absurdity of Davis’ argument.”

What’s more, the governor’s lawyers said, state law does not require Davis or any other country clerk to condone or approve of same-sex marriage. The purely administrative function of certifying that the legal requirements have been met “does not implicate her individual religious beliefs.”

Federal Judge David L. Bunning is expected to rule soon on the request to dismiss the lawsuit against the governor.

SOURCE

This will come to a head for Miss Kim very soon. Will she be crucified or will she be sanctified? Only the shadow knows for sure, lol.

I'm sick of looking at her face...
 

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The purely administrative function of certifying that the legal requirements have been met “does not implicate her individual religious beliefs.”

The lawyers for the governor have absolutely hit the nail on the head here! A clerk is not giving a moral sanction to anything - all she is being asked to do is certify that the people meet the LEGAL requirements for a civil marriage. Doing so in no way shows support for the marriage, and religion has literally NOTHING to do with civil marriage!

B.
 

gb2000ie

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That there are good people in the Catholic community it is unquestioned, even here in Italy, but they are very few.

I'm sorry but that's not fair or reasonable. What percentage of Italians are part of the Catholic community? Somewhere between half and three quarters I think - so you are saying almost none of those 30 to 45 million people are good?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

I could also cite the priests who are in the front line against injustice and fight mafia and poverty, but also in this case, are "extremely rare." Besides, they are frowned upon by the "staff" of the Vatican.

I get the impression you are confusing the small ruling elite with the community of the church. A very small percentage of the Catholic community make up that elite!

Most of the members of the church is near to the powers and lobbies (especially mafia), for example the magnificent funeral at Boss Casamonica, celebrated recently in Rome.

There is no mafia here in Ireland, so I can't really comment on that. I'll have to take your word for it.

Bergoglio is the head of the church by two and a half years, not a few. In two and a half years in essence nothing has changed, apart from his bombastic announcements, not followed by concrete facts.

Two and a half years is NOTHING in an organisation as old and slow-moving as the Catholic Church!

Also, he has made changes - he fired that odious and evil cardinal Burke, who was head of the church's supreme court. He's also making important reforms to the vatican bank - opening up the finances of the church more than any of his predecessors, and signing new treaties with regulators to clean up the bank's practices: http://anon.projectarchive.net/?htt...5/apr/01/vatican-bank-agrees-tax-treaty-italy

Unlikely to change anything. The church browse in wealth, in power and in the greatest privilege imaginable. Who rinucerebbe to everything? Certainly not a Jesuit.

He's not going to change EVERYTHING, and i very much doubt I will ever agree with the man on much, but it's unproductive not to recognise progress.

I'm not saying Francis is a saint, I am saying he's not quite the devil you make out, and he is an improvement on his predecessors in some areas.

B.
 

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And in what way does this justify to rip a quote entirely out of its context and butch its meaning?

Just inquire from not ecclesiastical sources.

@ jazzeven and gb2000ie

However I'm happy for you that you are so confident in the change.

Although I'd like to continue the discussion, unfortunately, as I have explained many times in many post, I do not speak English and to communicate using Google translator, which, though valuable for me, is far from the translate correctly what I write.

Consequently this forces me to revise and correct several times my messages.

Just to write this message, I spent more than one hour. For me it is difficult and I committed to the greater time that I can devote to the forum.

So in spite of myself I give up the discussion, because I can not compete in a tight duscussione.

But let me say one last thing.

Since you have so much at heart the Pope and the Vatican, take pressure on your governments to traserire the Papal States in your countries, obviously with all expenses that follow and the maintenance of the entire clergy.

Thanks for your attention and good continuation.
 

gb2000ie

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Since you have so much at heart the Pope and the Vatican, take pressure on your governments to traserire the Papal States in your countries, obviously with all expenses that follow and the maintenance of the entire clergy.

Thanks for your attention and good continuation.

I neither love NOR hate the RCC. You assume I must love it, because I do not hate it like you do. No!

I'm not a member of the church, and I don't want to be. I was also very proud when our prime minister stood up in our parliament to attack the vatican over their disgusting reaction to the sex abuse scandals we've suffered.

I was very clear that I see the church as very grey. I see all the many problems very clearly. But, I also see the good that is in there too. You pretend only the bad exists, and that is not correct, nor fair, nor productive.

B.
 
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