• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access.

    By joining you will gain full access to thousands of Videos, Pictures & Much More.

    Membership is absolutely FREE and registration is FAST & SIMPLE so please, Register Today and join one of the friendliest communities on the net!



    You must be at least 18 years old to legally access this forum.
  • Hello Guest,

    Thanks for remaining an active member on GayHeaven. We hope you've enjoyed the forum so far.

    Our records indicate that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not dismiss this notice & make your next post today by doing one of the following:
    • General Discussion Area - Engage in a conversation with other members.
    • Gay Picture Collections - Share any pictures you may have collected from blogs and other sites. Don't know how to post? Click HERE to visit our easy 3-steps tutorial for picture posting.
    • Show Yourself Off - Brave enough to post your own pictures or videos? Let us see, enjoy & comment on that for you.
    • Gay Clips - Start sharing hot video clips you may have. Don't know how to get started? Click HERE to view our detailed tutorial for video posting.
    As you can see there are a bunch of options mentioned in here and much more available for you to start participating today! Before making your first post, please don't forget to read the Forum Rules.

    Active and contributing members will earn special ranks. Click HERE to view the full list of ranks & privileges given to active members & how you can easily obtain them.

    Please do not flood the forum with "Thank you" posts. Instead, please use the "thanks button"

    We Hope you enjoy the forum & thanks for your efforts!
    The GayHeaven Team.
  • Dear GayHeaven users,

    We are happy to announce that we have successfully upgraded our forum to a new more reliable and overall better platform called XenForo.
    Any feedback is welcome and we hope you get to enjoy this new platform for years and years to come and, as always, happy posting!

    GH Team

The Hobby Lobby Ruling Is Surprisingly Good for Gays

Stonecold

GTM Movies
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
15,250
Reaction score
52,176
Points
391


The Hobby Lobby ruling is, no doubt, bad news for women and for anybody who cares about women’s health care. But in an attempt to narrow the ruling’s effect, the conservative majority makes a surprising concession—one that could be good news for gay people.


That’s because the Hobby Lobby case was never just about birth control. Lurking in the background of the litigation was an open question about employers that might also cite their religious beliefs to discriminate against gay people, even where the law forbade it. Hobby Lobby’s argument, taken at its broadest, would seem to allow this. It argued that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which prevents the government from “substantially burden[ing] a person’s exercise of religion”—as well as the First Amendment’s free exercise clause—guaranteed employers sweeping authority to violate laws that went against their sincerely held religious beliefs.

What kind of laws might violate religious employers’ religious principles? After birth control coverage, the most obvious candidate is an LGBT anti-discrimination ordinance. Liberals have been fretting for months that a pro-Hobby Lobby ruling could undermine such laws, allowing any purportedly religious employer to violate them with impunity. The question suddenly emerged as a dire threat as florists, bakers, and photographers have claimed a religious right to break state law to discriminate against gay couples, and state after state proposed their own riffs on RFRA. The issue became a minor cause célèbre among conservative commentators, and, as the Hobby Lobby ruling approached, gay rights advocates braced for the apocalypse.

But on Monday morning, the apocalypse didn’t come. In fact, quite the opposite: In its ruling for Hobby Lobby, the court—in an opinion authored by arch-conservative Justice Samuel Alito—explicitly stated that RFRA could not be used as a “shield” to “cloak … discrimination in hiring” as a “religious practice to escape legal sanction.” RFRA doesn’t permit employers to break a law when there is a compelling government interest backing that regulation, and, according to Alito, the government “has a compelling interest in providing an equal opportunity to participate in the workforce.”

Alito cites racial discrimination in his opinion. But Justice Anthony Kennedy, in a concurrence, cabins the court’s ruling even further, making clear that the majority isn’t rewriting RFRA (or the First Amendment) to protect anti-gay discrimination. Kennedy denies that the opinion is a startling “breadth and sweep,” noting that this case could easily be “distinguish[ed] ... from many others in which it is more difficult” to strike a balance between legal regulations and “an alleged statutory right of free exercise.” While religious liberty may permit employers to exercise their own beliefs to a point, “neither may that same exercise unduly restrict … employees in protecting their own interests.” Translation: This case is about birth control and nothing more—and as a general rule, employees still have a compelling interest in most laws that protect their rights.



Why do both justices go out of their way to quell the fears of gay rights advocates? Easy: Because progressive folk hero Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg all but forces them to. Ginsburg takes the subtext of the case—does religious liberty allow anti-gay discrimination?—and places it at the forefront, throwing the infamous lesbian wedding photography case directly in the majority’s face. “Would RFRA require exemptions in cases of this ilk?” she asks. “And if not, how does the Court divine which religious beliefs are worthy of accommodation, and which are not?”

In responding to Ginsburg, the court goes as far as it properly can to disarm her argument, not just kicking the discrimination question down the road but quietly defusing its power by suggesting such claims wouldn’t be compelling enough to survive. In doing so, the court may have forestalled a new round of litigation over gay rights versus religious liberty—or, at the very least, suggested that it wouldn’t seriously entertain freedom-to-discriminate claims. On an otherwise dark day for progressives, that’s a revelation worth celebrating.
 

Urban

Donator
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,320
Reaction score
245
Points
63
I haven't read the decision (and probably never will), but my understanding from what I've heard is that it's also narrowed in two other important ways, neither of which is directly related to gay issues:

(1) It applies only to "closely held corporations", in other words those owned by a family or small partnership. Large corporations & conglomerates will still have to abide by that provision.

(2) It applies only to situations where the coverage can be obtained elsewhere, i.e. either the government or the insurance companies can provide it even though the corporation refuses to pay for it.

I agree with you that, although it's a bad decision, it's quite narrow in scope & definitely not the horrible disaster that some are making it out to be.
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
223
Points
0
I guess it could be worse. It really stinks that employers can now dictate healthcare to their staff. Reminder me of slavery frankly. A woman's healthcare is none of her boss's business!

Do you honestly think viagra will ever get the same treatment? Nope! Because companies are mostly run by men!

On days like this I think every right-thinking person has to be a feminist.

B.
 

Urban

Donator
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,320
Reaction score
245
Points
63
On days like this I think every right-thinking person has to be a feminist

Sad but true. I mean, why should anyone have to support women's rights, or gay rights, or black rights, or Buddhist rights? Human rights are human rights, period!
 

gorgik9

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
13,964
Reaction score
13,619
Points
120
It is seriously scary, that in the year 2014 it seems as if a woman's right to healthcare bears a lesser weight than an oh-so-religious employer's right to deny her those rights in the US of A.

But it gets even scarier! Reading in Stonecold's original post, first paragraph, last line, he talks about the conservative majority's surprising concession that "could be good news for gay people".
So you mean that "gay people" = gay MEN? But what about lesbian and bisexual women? Or do you mean that lesbian and bisexual women are "gay people" who don't need healthcare? Or what?

No, it's time to let those religious "special rights" go down the fuckin' drain. This is nothing but despiccable.
 

W!nston

SuperSoftSillyPuppy
Staff member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
11,948
Reaction score
1,229
Points
159
In America the federal government and all 50 of the states could and should end the tax exemption for religions. That move would provide enough revenue to pay off all government debts and leave an enormous positive balance the politicians could squander to boot.

I've never understood why religions deserve tax exempt status. Religion is BIG BUSINESS. Imagine if all the Christian, Muslim, Jewish and all the other cults had to pay up like the people they suck blood from?

Organized Religion is a cancer and should be recognized for what it is.
 
Last edited:

gorgik9

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
13,964
Reaction score
13,619
Points
120
@sniffit
Amen, brother Sniffit, amen!!!
 

gb2000ie

Super Vip
Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
4,532
Reaction score
223
Points
0
The more I think about this, the more daft it is. This is up there with the court ruling that gave Bush II the presidency, and explicitly stated, in the ruling, that it should not be used as a precedence. If you have to go out of your way to say that your logic only applies here, your logic is almost certainly wrong!

Also - it seems to me that the supreme court have appointed themselves arbiters of the validity of religious beliefs. The logic they use to justify the birth control exemption applies equally to blood transfusions, but, they say that religious belief is not worthy of protection. No way in hell did the founding fathers envisage the supreme court deciding what religious beliefs are, and what religious beliefs are not above the law.

This is bad law, and it will be remembered as bad law.

B.
 

tonka

Super Vip
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
182
Points
63
This is a court run amuck. It's also a court that has a very different ideology than the American public.
The only good news is that it will piss off a lot of women. Vote your rights, ladies!

This is not getting better anytime soon. Ginsburg is old. She's one sharp, tough old lady. But old is old. None of the conservative 5 look like they are retiring any time soon.
 

Stonecold

GTM Movies
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
15,250
Reaction score
52,176
Points
391
I agree with the words of George Takei

"In this case, the owners happen to be deeply Christian; one wonders whether the case would have come out differently if a Muslim-run chain business attempted to impose Sharia law on its employees. As many have pointed out, Hobby Lobby is the same company that invests in Pfizer and Teva Pharmaceuticals, makers of abortion inducing-drugs and the morning after pill. It also buys most of its inventory from China, where forced abortions are common. The hypocrisy is galling.

"Hobby Lobby is not a church. It’s a business — and a big one at that. Businesses must and should be required to comply with neutrally crafted laws of general applicability. Your boss should not have a say over your healthcare. Once the law starts permitting exceptions based on 'sincerely held religious beliefs' there’s no end to the mischief and discrimination that will ensue. Indeed, this is the same logic that certain restaurants and hotels have been trying to deploy to allow proprietors to refuse service to gay couples.



"While we work to overturn this decision by legislation, people of good conscious should BOYCOTT any for-profit business, including Hobby Lobby, which chooses to impose its religious beliefs on its employees. The only way such companies ever learn to treat people with decency and tolerance is to hit them where it counts–in their pocketbooks. I won’t be shopping there, and women everywhere should exercise their right of protest and refuse to shop there as well." - George Takei, writing on his personal blog.
 
Top