Brexit - to leave or not to leave - that is the question tonite

[Shelter]

I'm reading on the Indipendent that a petition for a second UE referendum has been signed by more than 1.000.000 people.

The petition is difficult to access due to a surge of traffic and the site is completely innaccessible from time to time.

According the law all petitions to the site that receive over 100,000 signatures must be considered for debate in Parliament. Who knows....

Why a new referendum? Has that been a voting in a kindergarten? I think many of the voters have voted about things from which they have had no clue.
They followed this Boris and this nut-cracker grinning Nigel like the lemmings.
And on the next morning they get up from their beds with a start. Now they have grasped what they have done and quickly they want a new referendum. Again the question - are we in a kindergarten? How stupid can you get?

Out is out! If they don't like it they can lump it!

And Mr. Cameron is a conjuror! Why he will wait to resign until October? And to this time he wants that his successor shall make all the things wich are needed for the retreat from the EU. No - his sheeps haved voted "meh, meh" (translated "out, out") The rest of the EU don't want to wait until October and from than 2 years more!

And will anyone explain it to me: why it must last for two years? The papers from London are coming to Brussels - Brussel will sign them - and they are out! Two years for this process?

 

[skyward]

Thought this was interesting....

BBC - In one word: Brussels reacts to Brexit

 

[skyward]

Why a new referendum? Has that been a voting in a kindergarten? I think many of the voters have voted about things from which they have had no clue.
They followed this Boris and this nut-cracker grinning Nigel like the lemmings.
And on the next morning they get up from their beds with a start. Now they have grasped what they have done and quickly they want a new referendum. Again the question - are we in a kindergarten? How stupid can you get?

Out is out! If they don't like it they can lump it!

And Mr. Cameron is a conjuror! Why he will wait to resign until October? And to this time he wants that his successor shall make all the things wich are needed for the retreat from the EU. No - his sheeps haved voted "meh, meh" (translated "out, out") The rest of the EU don't want to wait until October and from than 2 years more!

And will anyone explain it to me: why it must last for two years? The papers from London are coming to Brussels - Brussel will sign them - and they are out! Two years for this process?

Hmmm, I don't recall Germans wanting such strict adherence when it came to the Greek 2015 referendum.

Btw, how much longer before the unresolved Greek debt problem comes back to haunt the EU?

 

[Shelter]

I think the Greek referendum from 2015 is something different than this here.
To that time the mood here was very hard against the Greeks. We have mostly said "let them go". Better two losses than one sorrow! It is my opinion that in the EU are too much countries with great problems. An d thery don't do good to the rest.

But England always was a great and healthy partner in the EU. And they have got over a very long time always derogations. As I have said - the EU is no heavenly place! Surely not! And I hope the EU will reform themselves now - I hope so, but that doesn't mean I believe in it.

But as bad or good this union is - only together we can master all these international problems. Alone everyone will be weak.

But perhaps in some months the English people will see for itself what it has done with this idiotic vote. I believe they see it just now in the moment! That's the reason for a plea for a new referendum.

 

[skyward]

To that time the mood here was very hard against the Greeks. We have mostly said "let them go".

And earlier you said about the Brits 'let them go' also. Except your strategy with the Greeks was to IGNORE their referendum. Not you personally of course, but the German top officials, like Schäuble.

In any event, Germany has it's own problems to worry about as you well know!

:big hug:

 

[slimjim]

Hmmm, I don't recall Germans wanting such strict adherence when it came to the Greek 2015 referendum.

And what happened when Ireland voted in 2008 to reject adopting the Euro?..... a second referendum in 2009 which got a yes vote this time

 

[skyward]

The 2008 vote rejected the Lisbon Treaty.

But, believe me, I take your point.

 

[ihno]

And what happened when Ireland voted in 2008 to reject adopting the Euro?..... a second referendum in 2009 which got a yes vote this time

I think that questions of great impact should always have two polls, so that it's not simply the "mood of the day".

But the decision had been made. Out is out. And therefore the European Union has to solve a ton of problems.

Cameron's attitude to wait till October, till he has solved his petty problems within his party is impertinent. Why should anybody in Europe care about the inner politics of England? The longer he waits the more he supports LePen and other RightWing-movements in Europe.

And this new attempt on another referendum is politically immature. You can't vote till you like the result (of course you can, the islands people can do anything they want but not on other's expense). That option should have been discussed before. Again: That would only support LePen also.

 

[skyward]

But if you have two polls, why not three? Or four?

As you say "You can't vote till you like the result." But the Greeks voted, and were simply IGNORED! Nobody even bothered to raise the spectre of voting again.)

 

[dargelos]

The result is not legaly binding, we can have as many as we want.
I cant get the anonymous link to work so find it by searching for;

parliament.uk/petitions/131215

we are at 2.2 million now, rising as fast as the govt server can keep up.

 

[ihno]

The result is not legaly binding, we can have as many as we want.
I cant get the anonymous link to work so find it by searching for;

parliament.uk/petitions/131215

we are at 2.2 million now, rising as fast as the govt server can keep up.

If you are a leader of a state you have some kind of responsibility. Ignoring such a vote (the brexit vote I mean) would ultimately undermine the foundation of democracy itself.

There are tons of different mods for elections but the rules must be decided before the election, not afterwards.

 

[skyward]

@dargelos

Time to accept the outcome. Britain is out. Period. End of.

You live in a FANTASTIC country. With great people. Look to the future with positivity and hope. This EU is not the 'end all and bee all'.

For one, the US and UK will always be close allies...





And if you ever fancy a threesome, Ireland is on standby.)

 

[skinjo9]

having voted in 1974 to join the common market NOT united states of Europe which it has become, and now reaching the great age of 64 where i can review all the past problems that being in the EU has caused the UK, I can honestly say that many British people knew very well want we want. OUT OUT. and no further referendum. its the press whipping up trouble as usual. don't believe the press lol
The truth is We have been paying to the EU vast amounts of money trillions to further a United states of Europe for 40 years. We only get back a small amount in subsidies, which is our money back anyway.
All the Bureaucratic nonsense that thousands of no marks in Brussels think up have hurt our country a great deal. Europe takes our fish and sells it back at a higher price,whilst we burn our boats, Farmers here are committing suicide daily because they cannot farm, they have to plough crops back in or throw milk away. turning to put solar panels and wind masts on their ground to try and break even.
PC gone mad rules that increase the costs of roadworks and building projects, non elected guys telling us what we can and cant do.
NO NO NO its time to look very hard at the EU. propped up by wealthy diplomats who want the gravy train to roll on. well NOT with our money. We are the 5th biggest financial state in the world, 2nd biggest to Germany in paying into the EU. well if you all want us leave so quickly then we will have the last few months billions back then, plus you will not have anymore.
Germany you see how you like having to prop up Europe on your own. and don't forget poor Greece, who wrote off your war debts. but last year you didn't want to help them, you ignored them. typical.
We are an island race with a thousand years of history in beating the world in anything we want to proceed with.We are an out looking and thinking race not isolationist as accused. the world is our playing ground not just Europe, which is drowning in more members going bust.
Hate to mention the war, but I think we won, after soldering on for 2 years on our own before USA decided it could make a killing financially by entering the war, that's where its wealth started more than the oil fields. we have just paid them off the last payment on the lend lease agreements of 1940. All of you young guys that mouth off about not wanting us now we have taken the very difficult and courageous decision to leave a dying European union should remember that 28 states is too many, 28 states all different make ups, religions, etc and mostly poor, because they are what's left of USSR after its break up. Unchecked and low educated Migration kills countries, because it strangles them, infrastructure cant handle it.and of course these countries left in the union will slowly become more effected by so called Diesh. So Leaving on Monday would be fine for me.
I am pleased and cant wait for the future.More manufacturing, House building, our own boarders, our own fishing industry, farming policy that gives us self sufficient food resources, therefore cheaper., no banks to drive us into recession, get rid of non paying tax companies that will have to pay.
As far as Scotland is concerned, it has no more oil, and we pay a fortune in subsidies to it to keep it afloat, think twice before you go your own way, you will be worse off. ditto Ireland too. the UK is better together not split up.but hey we have democracy, more than most countries out there. so don't bash UK because we could come back and bash you harder down the line OK. We have pulled out of the world recession quicker and stronger than any other European country don't forget that. with triple A references, and a bank of England quit well prepared to cover any blips in the financial markets of which 75% of the top 100 companies are foreign making money here. not Europe.

 

[jeanlouis]

Hello Skinjo9,

I read your long comment and I just wanted to say that nobody win a war.
The war it's only deads, deads and deads. I am 59 and I think that today I am Charlie, I am Francois Cavanna.
Maybe UK is the 5th financial place in the world but how many poor workers in UK ?
I believed Tatcher dead, Skinjoe9 ?

 

[skyward]

@jeanlouis

It's nice, and rather emotive, that you are 'charlie'. Well done!

Britain has a looooooooong history of contributing to freedom of expression.: 'Magna Carta', John Milton, 1689 Bill of Rights, John Stuart Mill, etc. etc.

Perhaps if the British people rebel against the neo-liberal, bureaucratic 'Latte sipping' EU, it is because the EU has become rotten!

 

[brmstn69]

Thank you England. Your historic vote to withdraw from the EU has inspired some in Texas to call for secession from the U.S. once again (they try this every few years), let us pray they succeed. The secession of Texas would raise the average IQ in the U.S. by a minimum of 20% and deal a shattering blow to the GOP. #Texit

 

[trencherman]

I realize nations and states are different from individuals but when one of us kids threatened to run away, mother’s response was: fine, I’ll help you pack which sounds very much like EU’s response to the British election result.

 

[JeroenS]

I do not understand the English people who wanted to stay in the EU, esp the "new generation" (only 30% of the people under age of 30 voted), so you lost deal with it.

If you not vote (how hard is it to go to a polling station) you should keep your mouth shut about the results!

If every time a referendum or election is helt and the loosers start whining they lost (because they stayed home and did not care to vote) and they want to have a new vote it is end of democraty!

Let this be a lesson for all of us, you have the right to vote, so USE it! Not stay at home and complain afterwards the results are not what you like...

Stop whining UK, show the world you have balls and accept the consequences of your own faults! Get out of the EU as soon as possible!!!

 

[gb2000ie]

I do not understand the English people who wanted to stay in the EU, esp the "new generation" (only 30% of the people under age of 30 voted), so you lost deal with it.

If you not vote (how hard is it to go to a polling station) you should keep your mouth shut about the results!

If every time a referendum or election is helt and the loosers start whining they lost (because they stayed home and did not care to vote) and they want to have a new vote it is end of democraty!

Let this be a lesson for all of us, you have the right to vote, so USE it! Not stay at home and complain afterwards the results are not what you like...

Stop whining UK, show the world you have balls and accept the consequences of your own faults! Get out of the EU as soon as possible!!!

When someone whines about politics to me, I always ask "you did vote right?". If the answer is "no", I just cut them off and tell them they forfeighted their right to complain.

B.

 

[ihno]

Look at this:

http://anonym.to/http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

May 2016: Nigel Farage wanted a second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win.

And Europe is supposed to wait and endure those narcisstic pirouettes? I am amazed by the amount of political immaturity that unfolds if you take a closer look at this kindergarden.