Cardinal Says U.S. Catholics Live Under 'Pro-Gay State Religion'

[W!nston]

What a load of crap...

Cardinal Francis George Says Catholics Are Forced To Live Under Pro-Gay 'State Religion' Akin To 'Sharia Law'
The Huffington Post | By Curtis M. Wong | Posted: 09/12/2014 1:01 pm EDT

An Illinois-based Catholic leader is making headlines after penning a column arguing that members of his church are now being forced to live under a pro-gay, pro-choice "state religion" akin to those living in nations "governed by Sharia law."

Cardinal Francis George, Head of the Archdiocese of Chicago, writes in a column for Catholic New World:

In recent years, society has brought social and legislative approval to all types of sexual relationships that used to be considered 'sinful.' Since the biblical vision of what it means to be human tells us that not every friendship or love can be expressed in sexual relations, the church’s teaching on these issues is now evidence of intolerance for what the civil law upholds and even imposes.

He goes on to note:

We are told that, even in marriage itself, there is no difference between men and women, although nature and our very bodies clearly evidence that men and women are not interchangeable at will in forming a family. Nevertheless, those who do not conform to the official religion, we are warned, place their citizenship in danger.
He also seemed to hint at the number of bus who have been called up in the media for turning away same-sex couples, noting that business owners "must conform their activities to the official religion or be fined, as Christians and Jews are fined for their religion in countries governed by Sharia law."

The comments aren't particularly surprising given the cardinal's history of anti-LGBT sentiment. In 2013, George launched a last-ditch campaign against Illinois' same-sex marriage legislation, saying the state's government didn't have the authority to "create something that nature itself tells us is impossible," according to Religion News Service.

In 2011, he compared LGBT rights advocates to the Ku Klux Klan in an interview with Fox News Chicago.

"You know, you don’t want the gay liberation movement to morph into something like the Ku Klux Klan, demonstrating in the streets against Catholicism," he said at the time in a discussion about Chicago's LGBT Pride Parade, according to the Sun-Times.

Earlier this week, however, a church music director who was fired from his job after it was revealed that he'd gotten engaged to his same-sex partner said he'd met and prayed together with George, according to The Chicago Tribune.

"I'm not that naive to know that there are some people who believe that who I am basically is wrong," Colin Collette, who was let go from his job at Holy Family Catholic Church in Inverness, told the publication. "I'm not that naive, but the love and support I have received is truly humbling and is beyond words."

 

[bigsal]

This is for those who are duped by the homilies of Pope Francis. He talk about peace and love, but does do the dirty work to his subalterns.

These men with the soutane and filled with money (certainly not earned with honest and hard working), they are like the Taliban. But the worst thing is that there are many, too many people hanging from their lips.

 

[gb2000ie]

What a prick!

I hope no one takes is ranting seriously.

B.

 

[Shelter]

What a prick!

I hope no one takes is ranting seriously.

B.

Don't believe that! Many, many, many will do that!

 

[brmstn69]

As opposed to the past millennia spent under Christian rule...

 

[frontlemon]

Please tell this cardinal lunatic that homosexuality is well pursued in nature. Ask him to read the Wikipedia article on "Animal homosexual behavior".

Guys like this should be deported to Africa among the wild, so that they learn something about nature. :angry:

 

[zminstral]

He is one of the reasons why I am a "lapsed" Catholic

 

[Shelter]

He is one of the reasons why I am a "lapsed" Catholic

I'm a Catholic from birth too. And I must admit here that I'll believe in God - but not in the Church. That may be a contradiction - but let me explain.

The belief in God is something what I need for my life and this belief is in my heart and in all (well in the most :blushing things I do. I think that will be something our Christian nurture is requirering from all of us.

As I said - I don't beliefe in the Church itself because the Church is an economic institution which is manipulating the believers in the sense of their own interests.

So I need to believe in God without the church (and that will be possible!) and from this reason I never would quit my Catholic Sein!

I hope I have no one here injured with my confession because I know that many gay men are passionate enemies of the Church - but I don't hope of God.

 

[gorgik9]

In a language that any old catholic bishop, cardinal or pope should understand :

MENTULA MAGNA MINAX !!!

That's what I call this prick. It's in classical latin and it means: mentula=cock, magna=big, minax=vicious, mean. So : a vicious big prick.

A bit more serious : "Nature" in classical theology has very, very little to do with biology, animals and what you can find in the forest. It's a theological concept, not a biological concept. It's an aspect of divine creation, not birds and bees...

 

[gb2000ie]

When you're used to being in a position of privilege where the powerful ask your advice and implement your ideologies into law, I guess it might seem like discrimination to just become equal with everyone else.

That is the kindest thing I can say about the Catholic hierarchy.

B.

 

[Shelter]

Dargelos and GB2000ie to both of you I agree totally. But let me say I don't feel as a privileged person because I'm believing in God - or will I have understood you wrong?
(These damned language barrier - )

But I think I have told all of you very plainly that I'm not hooked to the Church as institution. My Church is in my heart. No priest will give me to any time any advices. The priest is a man like me and you and his advices will not be honest, that's what I believe. The advice of a markenter perhaps will be more honest that from the priest. BUT nevertheless I'll believe in God.

I hope both of you will forgive me that I've told that. I know it is a hotly disputed topic.

And yes Dargelos the "H" in my new logo is a house (not a church - please dont think that and don't read it into) But my nickname is SHELTER and a house will give you shelter. And as well I hope you don't think that I will sit in my house only praying with folded hands. Surely not! I'm as normal as all of you and I'm gay and from this reason not the big friend of the priests of Catholic Church.

 

[gb2000ie]

Dargelos and GB2000ie to both of you I agree totally. But let me say I don't feel as a privileged person because I'm believing in God - or will I have understood you wrong?
(These damned language barrier - )

unless you've a bishop or a cardinal (or the pope!) I wasn't talking about you

When I said the hierarchy I meant the church leaders, not your average catholic.

 

[Shelter]

Well GB2000ie from the bottom of my heart I can honestly declare: I'm neither a bishop, nor a cardinal and honestly nor the pope!!!!! -

But wouldn't that be playfull when the pope itself would be here among us? Wouldn't it?
But who knows?????????

 

[Shelter]

Probably not the pope himself but you can bet that some of his entourage do download porn. Ah but wait; since under 18 material is strictly, totaly, entirely banned here, they will have to look elsewhere to satisfy their needs.

ps that's a handsome dog you have there.

p p p

Hahaha yea Dargelos you may have totally right!

And thank you yes my Buddy is handsome and I love him really. Not as much as my BF (or ... however :blushing: ). I hope he will not read this !

And my Buddy is my SHELTER!

 

[frontlemon]

I personally believe in GOD . In my belief, god is an embodiment of truth and love <3. So I will believe in that person and/or institution as the spokesperson of GOD whose every words are cent percent true and so I don't believe in any institution who until recently, held the view that the sun revolved around the earth.

 

[bigsal]

Dargelos and GB2000ie to both of you I agree totally. But let me say I don't feel as a privileged person because I'm believing in God - or will I have understood you wrong?
(These damned language barrier - )

But I think I have told all of you very plainly that I'm not hooked to the Church as institution. My Church is in my heart. No priest will give me to any time any advices. The priest is a man like me and you and his advices will not be honest, that's what I believe. The advice of a markenter perhaps will be more honest that from the priest. BUT nevertheless I'll believe in God.

I hope both of you will forgive me that I've told that. I know it is a hotly disputed topic.

And yes Dargelos the "H" in my new logo is a house (not a church - please dont think that and don't read it into) But my nickname is SHELTER and a house will give you shelter. And as well I hope you don't think that I will sit in my house only praying with folded hands. Surely not! I'm as normal as all of you and I'm gay and from this reason not the big friend of the priests of Catholic Church.

I respect your faith in God, but let me a disquisition on the subject, Nothing personal, believe me.

Also I am a Catholic from birth, but not by my choice, have me imposed, such as baptism, first communion, confirmation, and so to all the born in the nations of the extraction Christian.

For a long time I have been fascinated by the mystical religious world, in the full conviction of being a true believer, and that nothing happens without the will of God.

You must know that in Italy, until recently, the teaching of the Catholic religion was compulsory in schools up to high school. So as you can see the indoctrination of the first 18 years of life was insured, or rather, imposed on all.

Almost fifteen, I approached the reading of books other than textbooks, many of which are "unwelcome" to the Church, especially works of literature, science and history, the ones that I did not read or studied in educational-religious institutions.

From that moment I finally started to see things for what they were and not for what they wanted me to believe.

I was also in the seminary, of which I have mentioned in another post, and believe me, I know very well the church and all the "sacred" scriptures.

We get to the point and what I am about to write is just for the sake of comparison and dialectic. I hope not to offend anyone.

Which god are we to believe or we think of to believe?

In that the Catholic-Christian? Or that Jewish or Islamic? Only for mentioning those of the monotheistic religions.

We also consider the other deities: the Hinduism (Iswara, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva etc..), Deva (Kali, Krishna, Parvati, etc..), Buddha (Arapacana, Bhrikuti-Tara, chakravartin just to name three, because the list is very long).


We must not forget also the deities of Taoism, Confucianism, Shinto, and so on without taking anything away from those of many African tribes, aborigines etc.. etc..

Then there are the gods past by now of fashion, which have conditioned the lives of many people for millennia: the gods the Egyptians, Greeks-Romans, Nordics, Aztec, Maya, and so on, omitting those of the most ancient peoples of the area Mediterranean - Middle East .

First of the ancient civilizations the men worshiped the sun was, and this made sense, because was source of life, light and warmth. They did not know, however, that the sun was just a star in our solar system, a tiny bright dot in the vastness consists of billions of galaxies.

Among all these what is the God more credible? Quel'è that the most real, without a shadow of a doubt?
Apart from the sun, still today visible by the human race, and which we now know to be a star, all other gods are abstract entities.

A final consideration; God and religions go hand in hand and every religion is professed by someone in the flesh. There is no a God "end to itself"; unless you want to create another religion or an other belief.

I apologize in advance for errors or other misunderstandings, but it is not easy for me to deal with such a complex issue without knowing English.

 

[Shelter]

Hi Bigsal - from your words I can see you are Italian from birth - right? Well and the second it is not so very easy for me too to write here, because my native tongue is German. But both of us we are knowing so much of English that we will understand one to the other. (so we know more than the original English speaking guys here - )!

But I'll come to the point. You are asking which God we are believing to. And you are reciting so many "Gods" - the catholic one the protestant one, Gods from the Inkas, the Romans, the Greeks and so on.

Well I think all these Gods culminate in the only ONE GOD. These ONE GOD may be the sun, the nature, the wide blue sky whatever you want. And I will understand that your growing up in strict catholic Italy wasn't a bed of roses. I don't know your age - but if you have been grown up in the 50th or 60th it must be horrible - I admit! I don't know how it will be in the today Italy.

But well my father very often is telling the story when he was at school in 1953 in southern Germany that had had there toilets for catholic boys, toilets for protestant boys and toilets for the teaching staff!!! And my father told me he had asked a teacher how protestant boys are pissing?! That meant for him one week suspended from class.

But nonetheless he gave me a christian upbringing. And his word always have been until today - GOD is in your heart. Which shall mean: try always to act good and honest, help where your help is needed and wanted. Don't harm other people, help people if they are attacked by words or violence. Give the weaked shelter! - Oh my dear Bigsal if I could write this here in German I really could better and more accurate
argue.

Nevertheless I hope you and all the others here will understand me, my feelings and my opinion. I don't know when I have been the last time in a church. Oh yes I'm visiting churches in Germany and most of all too in Italy - they are beautiful. But I look at them as museums.

But however it is important to have an etic education that you are knowing what is good and what is bad and that you know the difference.

It is very hard to speak or discussing or argue about religion and/or GOD - I know.
Nevertheless too I accept your arguments - it shows me you have contemplated with this topic - and as I have said so very often here - it is not a very easy topic and all of us here, we will not bring it down to a common denominator.

But we have tried it - and that is the main thing!

So at this end dear Bigsal, please be my friend as I'm your friend. One thing, I know for sure, we have in common - we are GAY. I love you - kisses from me in Germany to you in Italy! -

 

[Shelter]

'Tis a pity some of the writing here that has the most thought put into it gets relatively few readers. Most members are more interested in looking at boys than reading about god, the universe and the meaning of life. Don't let that thought put you off keeping up the high standards, those who do read it do appreciate it.

Thank you Dargelos - and sure it will be not a topic from great interest for all members here, I know. But I love the discussion with Bigsal and with all the others here. And if only two, three or four people discuss this subject of dispute I feel good.

I don't want to proselytize here and too I'm not a philosopher - It's only delightful for me to discuss controversial issues.

And perhaps in the future some more of the guys here will join us on this thread. p

 

[W!nston]

The history of religion is full of atrocities committed in the name of every God ever imagined. The 'believers' are indoctrinated to follow the dogma handed down by the hierarchy and some of them do so with extreme vigor and zealotry. The silent majority support the religion and that makes them complicit and as guilty as the ones with blood on their hands.

Religious beliefs have also been beneficial to civilization. The idea of judgment by God for our 'sins' has led to many good laws against murder, rape, theft and so on. Religions helped to 'civilize' mankind. Government and the rule of law were built upon the foundation that religion created.

The so called 'Ten Commandments' include laws against murder, adultery, coveting (theft and rape) and so on. There is no 'Commandment' against homosexuality. Murder, theft, rape etc. - yes, there are commandments against these. Honor your father and mother, do not commit adultery and taking God's name in vein (swearing and making vows without commitment to keep them) - these little gems are often overlooked with a wink & a nod.

My personal beliefs are simple. All things are connected and bound together in an intricate web of things. Our actions as individuals and a species as a whole cause reactions that vibrate through all of creation. The web of connection is at the heart of spiritual things.

We are made of flesh and blood but our thoughts are pure energy.

This quote probably sums up the nature of our spiritual energy as well as anything ever written:

“Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.” ― Albert Einstein

 

[bigsal]

Hi Bigsal - from your words I can see you are Italian from birth - right? Well and the second it is not so very easy for me too to write here, because my native tongue is German. But both of us we are knowing so much of English that we will understand one to the other. (so we know more than the original English speaking guys here - )!

But I'll come to the point. You are asking which God we are believing to. And you are reciting so many "Gods" - the catholic one the protestant one, Gods from the Inkas, the Romans, the Greeks and so on.

Well I think all these Gods culminate in the only ONE GOD. These ONE GOD may be the sun, the nature, the wide blue sky whatever you want. And I will understand that your growing up in strict catholic Italy wasn't a bed of roses. I don't know your age - but if you have been grown up in the 50th or 60th it must be horrible - I admit! I don't know how it will be in the today Italy.

But well my father very often is telling the story when he was at school in 1953 in southern Germany that had had there toilets for catholic boys, toilets for protestant boys and toilets for the teaching staff!!! And my father told me he had asked a teacher how protestant boys are pissing?! That meant for him one week suspended from class.

But nonetheless he gave me a christian upbringing. And his word always have been until today - GOD is in your heart. Which shall mean: try always to act good and honest, help where your help is needed and wanted. Don't harm other people, help people if they are attacked by words or violence. Give the weaked shelter! - Oh my dear Bigsal if I could write this here in German I really could better and more accurate
argue.

Nevertheless I hope you and all the others here will understand me, my feelings and my opinion. I don't know when I have been the last time in a church. Oh yes I'm visiting churches in Germany and most of all too in Italy - they are beautiful. But I look at them as museums.

But however it is important to have an etic education that you are knowing what is good and what is bad and that you know the difference.

It is very hard to speak or discussing or argue about religion and/or GOD - I know.
Nevertheless too I accept your arguments - it shows me you have contemplated with this topic - and as I have said so very often here - it is not a very easy topic and all of us here, we will not bring it down to a common denominator.

But we have tried it - and that is the main thing!

So at this end dear Bigsal, please be my friend as I'm your friend. One thing, I know for sure, we have in common - we are GAY. I love you - kisses from me in Germany to you in Italy! -

Dear Shelter, yes, I'm Italian (probably you have not got to read my posts in the past).

Thank you for the messages intelligent and interesting exchange in the Forum threads.

Sometimes I give the impression of being argumentative, but it is not so, I love the discussion and I like to deal with any matter of which I have knowledge.
One of my flaws is that unfortunately I always say what I think, but avoid offending others.

As you already know, I do not speak English and only thanks to Google translator I can communicate with members of the forum. To write, translate and correct the previous post I took almost 3 hours.