DOMA & Prop 8 are dead dead DEAD!

[mikey11]

DOMA


Prop 8

 

[MrMonkey]

it was 5:4!

congrats US-Supreme Court

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

This is a huge step in the right direction. It brings a smile to my face. Which as most of you know is a good thing cause lately I've been a little blue. I'm crying a little.

 

[tonka]

You hot boys from around the world can come here and marry us now. We'll have fun, and you'll be legal!

 

[Tjerk12]

You hot boys from around the world can come here and marry us now. We'll have fun, and you'll be legal!

Only hot boys? Let's make a proper start! Girls and boys, white or colored, hot or not, ugly or beautiful, short or long, fit or disabled!

I know, a bit bland, because you meant the same Tonka.

Congratulations USA.

 

[Bighatcher]

Prop 8 and doma are not dead.

you hot boys from around the world can come here and marry us now. We'll have fun, and you'll be legal!

there will always be prop 8's and doma's laws around the country. You cannot celebrate since only the states that currently permits same sex marriage are required to extend some, and i do mean some federal benefits to same sex legally married couples. Currently, there are only thirteen states that permit same sex marriages. In california, there will be a new effort to place the prop 8 legislation back on the ballot, which would again have the full support of the vast majority of california voters. Therefore, these individuals "will have standing to sue" which makes any recent decisions by the u. S. Supreme court, a moot decision.

 

[MrMonkey]

You hot boys from around the world can come here and marry us now. We'll have fun, and you'll be legal!

do I hear a wedding proposal here

I doooooooooooo :heart::rofl:

 

[josh_the_hot_boy]

Only hot boys? Let's make a proper start! Girls and boys, white or colored, hot or not, ugly or beautiful, short or long, fit or disabled!

I know, a bit bland, because you meant the same Tonka.

Congratulations USA.

There's no such thing as ugly.

 

[BearGut4Yngr]

WooHoo!!

 

[lunita]

I'm from Wisconsin, we used to be a liberal state back in the day. Over the last 30 years this place has become a bastion of conservatism. I applaud this state for including "sexual preference" along with race, color, creed, religion, disability or place of origin in the anti-discrimination clause in our constitution. But a year and a half ago that sort of became a moot point because the voters passed a referendum that became a state law which "defines" marriage. Yep, one man, one woman. That makes it impossible to even consider the concept of gay marriage here now without the need to wage multiple referendums simultaneously that were all successful. Yeah, like that's gonna happen. We live in Dane County, it's the last hold out of liberals in this entire state. The rest of the state would be happy to call in pest control and just get rid of us crazy liberals.

That being said, I applaud the Court for this decision, I NEVER thought they would have enough votes to make it pass. I fully expect someone to figure out a way to challenge this or manage to put so many restrictions on it that it will be crippled.

 

[zuchinidog]

about time

 

[tonka]

All this pessimism!
This is a great step forward. With California, a third of America will have this right. And more states will join. I have no doubt.
I know the fight's not over. So don't stop fighting!
And if you live in a state that is way on the right...come visit here in Boston. Have a wedding. I'll be your flower boy! Go home with some cake and a boatload of federal rights!

I had some friends who didn't get to see this wonderful turnabout. They passed when gays were the scourge of the earth.
I hope you youngsters understand you are coming to age in a golden moment. Don't take it for granted.

 

[Tjerk12]

All this pessimism!
This is a great step forward. With California, a third of America will have this right. And more states will join. I have no doubt.
I know the fight's not over. So don't stop fighting!
And if you live in a state that is way on the right...come visit here in Boston. Have a wedding. I'll be your flower boy! Go home with some cake and a boatload of federal rights!

I had some friends who didn't get to see this wonderful turnabout. They passed when gays were the scourge of the earth.
I hope you youngsters understand you are coming to age in a golden moment. Don't take it for granted.

You certainly hit the nail tonka.
Isn't it tragicomic that you have to become old to understand what it means to be young.

 

[topdog]

there will always be prop 8's and doma's laws around the country. You cannot celebrate since only the states that currently permits same sex marriage are required to extend some, and i do mean some federal benefits to same sex legally married couples. Currently, there are only thirteen states that permit same sex marriages. In california, there will be a new effort to place the prop 8 legislation back on the ballot, which would again have the full support of the vast majority of california voters. Therefore, these individuals "will have standing to sue" which makes any recent decisions by the u. S. Supreme court, a moot decision.

I am of a different opinion. Every federal benefit that DOMA blocked, is now open to married same-sex couples. Some things will need a bit of time to re-work, so this doesn't happen all at once, but the court is going to expect all Federal agencies to begin the process of enacting this decision. And the Obama administration is 100% behind it, so there will be no dragging of feet.

As for California, Proposition 8 is not coming back. Here's why:

• The referendum wouldn't succeed. This is not the same social environment as 2008. A tipping point has been passed. Remember, in 2008 both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were against gay marriage. A lot has changed in five years.
  
  For example one of the big backers of Proposition 8 was the Mormon church. You might have noticed that they were no where to be found when it came time to defend Prop 9 in court. I think they were shocked at the huge backlash they got after being identified with Prop 8. We have now seen in the last two years the LDS church softening their anti-gay stand and start open dialog with gay Mormon groups. While the Elders are not exactly carrying the rainbow flag in the Salt Lake City gay pride parade, they also don't want to have their church lumped in with the Westboro Baptist Church in the public's perception. They still want to be seen as that nice Mormon family down the street.
  
  Another sign of the times: Last week the head of Exodus, the largest international coalition of Ex-Gay Christian ministries apologized for all the false hope they have preached in the past and the harm it has caused individuals and families. The board of directors then unanimously dissolved the organization!
  
  
• If it passed, then, once again, the governor would refuse to defend it. It would then go to court and the anti-gay sponsors would be immediately thrown out because they don't have standing. What the Supreme Court said was that if the State of California is being sued, then only the State can defend a law in court. If the state isn't going to defend the law, other interested parties (in this case the sponsors of Prop 8) can't step in and substitute. Because they weren't the party being sued.

So I think things look pretty sunny for lovers in California. p

 

[topdog]

I'm from Wisconsin... the voters passed a referendum that became a state law which "defines" marriage. Yep, one man, one woman. That makes it impossible to even consider the concept of gay marriage here now without the need to wage multiple referendums simultaneously that were all successful. Yeah, like that's gonna happen. ...

Yes, the conservatives have locked things up pretty tight. BUT the good news is that you won't have to wait for multiple referendums to untie the knots. Because eventually another case like Prop 8 will come before the Supreme Court. Next time they won't dodge the question behind a legal technicality. If the Supreme Court had affirmed the original decision that struck down Proposition 8, then every anti-gay marriage law in the country would be invalid.

They weren't ready to do that.

In a way Roberts gave us a gift. If they had actually had to rule on whether limiting marriage to straight couples violated the constitution, the split might have been 5 to 4 in the wrong direction. Roberts can see where history is going and he knows that the court isn't ready yet to go that far.

By avoiding the question, the court didn't say yes (limiting marriage is illegal), but they didn't say no (marriage discrimination is OK). The question is still open, to be decided in the future. And the future is on our side. Every minute more old homophobes are dying and more gay-friendly young people are being born. In the long run, the anti-marriage lobby is doomed. All they can do now is make a lot of noise on the way out.

When that legal decision happens, gay marriage is everywhere. The only way to overturn that would be a constitutional amendment. Every year that ammednment is proposed there is less and less support for it. And even if it passed, the ratification process in the states is so drawn out that by that time there would be hundreds of thousands of legally married same-sex couples. It would really be no big deal anymore.

The fight isn't over. But we already know how this story is going to end.

 

[gb2000ie]

By avoiding the question, the court didn't say yes (limiting marriage is illegal), but they didn't say no (marriage discrimination is OK). The question is still open, to be decided in the future. And the future is on our side. Every minute more old homophobes are dying and more gay-friendly young people are being born. In the long run, the anti-marriage lobby is doomed. All they can do now is make a lot of noise on the way out.

And Obama is president for the next few years, so the chances are high he'll get to appoint another supreme court justice before he finishes up, bolstering the chances of a progressive judgement when this does end up before the court again.

B.

 

[Ninja108]

They were always going to punt on this. Hopefully by the time the next case gets to the court,Scalia will have croaked by then.

 

[stanho19]

Better late than never. Every other segment of the population considered even a little "non-mainstream" has long since been given full legal status. Finally, us too. GREAT!!

 

[topdog]

And Obama is president for the next few years, so the chances are high he'll get to appoint another supreme court justice before he finishes up, bolstering the chances of a progressive judgement when this does end up before the court again.

B.

Now that the Supreme Court has ruled, the office of the President (Obama now, and whoever follows him in the future) is where all the action is. The court can say anything they want, but they don't have the power to carry anything out. They depend on the President to interpret and rewrite regulations to conform to the court's decision. So, the administration gets to parse exactly how things will be handled.

For example, will a couple be considered married based on based on "state of celebration" or "state of domicile"? In other words, if I am married in New York and I move to Virginia ( a one-man-one-woman state) am I still married in the Federal Government's eyes? The Obama people are going to say, yes I am; they will write the rules into the tax code, social security guidelines, etc. that make that clear.

That's the good news. The BAD news is that if a Republican follows Obama in the next election, he or she could rewrite all those rules, since they are at the President's discretion.

That plus, as you mentioned, the crucial power to appoint federal and Supreme Court judges brings the office of the President center stage in the next act of this unfolding American drama.

 

[gb2000ie]

The BAD news is that if a Republican follows Obama in the next election, he or she could rewrite all those rules, since they are at the President's discretion.

Could that kind of change be a trigger for a law suit that makes it all the way up to the supremes and forces them to rule definitively on gay marriage?

B.