PRAY for our Egyptian brothers....

[garth33]

They deserve freedom! hey if any of you guys want to post about whats going on over there - please do it! It might take some of the heat off of us being a gay porn download site

 

[c750dt]

Best wishes to the people in Egypt and here's to hoping the citizens prevail. As for the remark about this being a gay porn site; the possible bad rep is unfair. What's wrong with a community of men having intelligent conversation between time spent admiring fellow male beauty?

 

[slimjim]

I heard on the BBC that the egyptian army has declared they will NOT fire on the protestors which is good news.

The BBC has also reported that King Abdullah of Jordan has sacked his Prime Minister and has instructed his replacement to instigate a package of economic and political reforms.

I guess with recent events in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and Jordan the "old guard" in most of the middle eastern countries must be getting worried.

 

[ritsuka]

It is absolutely beautiful to see the people rising up against these right wing dictators that have oppressed and kept them locked in poverty for so long, and winning. The Egyptian uprising has already beaten back the elite security forces, and I'm sure they will prevail. This is a major game-changing moment, and it is amazing to see governments afraid of their people again; that is when progress is achieved. If only more countries had the opportunity to completely overthrow the status quo and go in their own direction, with real direct democracy.

 

[garth33]

Mubarak "will not run for "re-election"" (SERIOUSLY???) so that's good news I guess...the question is...what's next??? Egypt is one of the cradles of our entire civilzation and the stories of the museums being looted makes me sick to my stomach...very sad.

g

 

[smallsleepyrascalcat]

Mubarak does still not understand... this is not over yet.

 

[gb2000ie]

Our thoughts should definitely be with all the people in Egypt, but, is there any need to bring religion into this? Not sure the mostly Muslim country really feels it needs our prayers.

Our support would be much more useful - we should all contact our elected officials to demand that our government support the uprisings and to help isolate Mubarak. It's good to see the US government's u-Turn over the weekend and the start of this week.

Like everyone else here I think, I want to see Egypt burgeon into a democratic state - but I'm not foolish enough to assume that a revolution and a change to democracy will mean freedom for gays. Just look how Iran's revolution turned out. There is no reason to assume that a secular Egypt is going to emerge from all this.

Lets hope for a free, tolerant, secular Egypt though.

B.

 

[diklik]

Our thoughts should definitely be with all the people in Egypt, but, is there any need to bring religion into this? Not sure the mostly Muslim country really feels it needs our prayers. There is no reason to assume that a secular Egypt is going to emerge from all this.

That is totally true. The Muslim Brotherhood (who established strong ties with the Nazi party during WW2) is likely to be behind the next ruler/despot in Egypt. The MB is even more aligned toward intolerance than Mubarak ever could have imagined being. Gay men and women will not fare well there.:worried:

 

[ritsuka]

The muslim brotherhood is just a mainstream nonviolent social organization (providing many services to people that the government hasn't) in Egypt--they have no ties to al queda and they are not any worse than conservative religious organizations in other countries like the US and Israel. They are a minor part of the current revolution in Egypt, which is secular and inclusive and has nothing to do with Iran. But remember the real story of the Iranian revolution dates back to the 1950's, when Iranians had a secular democratic government that the US overthrew because he wanted his people to benefit from their oil wealth, as opposed to multinational corporations. The US put the shah back into power, and thereby paved the way for a different sort of politics to develop in that country.

Please don't repeat neocon nonsense, especailly when it casts a cynical light on Egypt's potential, even as the Mubarak regime is lashing out with violence upon the protesters again. I think what the US should do is apologize for providing the Muburak government with the weapons it has used against the Egyptian people, pull their support for Mubarak and --all-- other dictators in the world and then back off; they have no other role to play here.

 

[gb2000ie]

I think what the US should do is apologize for providing the Muburak government with the weapons it has used against the Egyptian people, pull their support for Mubarak and --all-- other dictators in the world and then back off; they have no other role to play here.

Couldn't agree more - though I think I'd die of shock of the US did that. We can always hope.

Thanks also for clarifying the situation with the Muslim Brotherhood - I had a feeling the Glen Becks of the world were distorting them to support their fear agenda, but I didn't know enough to confidently speak out.

I do hope this thread isn't heading towards Islamophobia - it would be so sad to see gay people being intolerant.

B.

 

[gb2000ie]

The Muslim Brotherhood (who established strong ties with the Nazi party during WW2)

Do you have a citation for that? When ever someone throws around Nazi references like this my BS detector goes off the scale. If you don't actually have any evidence for such statements, perhaps you should stop making them.

B.

 

[diklik]

Do you have a citation for that? When ever someone throws around Nazi references like this my BS detector goes off the scale. If you don't actually have any evidence for such statements, perhaps you should stop making them.

B.

You were very quick to presume I had no proof of my assertion, and perhaps your BS detector is in serious need of recalibration. Take some time to read up on the Muslim (Moslem alternate spelling) Brotherhood, and verify it for yourself. Various news gathering organizations around the world, with differing points of view, have noted this old but worrisome connection to a set of racist beliefs. Although the MB is not currently listed as a terrorist organization, and have disavowed the events of 9-11, Bin Laden of Al Queda has publicly praised this group, leaving many to wonder what the connection is and what their ultimate goal might be. The MB is indeed a hard-line Islamist organization, calling for their own strict interpretation of the Qu'ran, as well as the implementation of Sharia law.

Perhaps you have a good chunk of reading to do to catch up to those of us who already know what is what.

 

[diklik]

Please don't repeat neocon nonsense, especailly when it casts a cynical light on Egypt's potential,

Perhaps I might equally state that you should not repeat the substance of Al Jazeera press releases, since they have their particular slant and point of view. One does not need to subscribe to Neocon thinking (which I abhore) to do some research and discover some less-than-desirable friendships between various organizations.

 

[diklik]

I do hope this thread isn't heading towards Islamophobia - it would be so sad to see gay people being intolerant.

B.

It would indeed. Speaking personally, I respect and revere Islamists who demonstrate their faith daily. They are a people of peace, sincerity, piety and reverence for their God. I work with a number of them and would trust them with my life. What worries me are the phony Islamics - the same type of pretenders we have here in North America who thump their Bibles and pronounce hatred - those are the ones promoting hatred, injustice, bigotry and race war.

 

[gb2000ie]

You were very quick to presume I had no proof of my assertion, and perhaps your BS detector is in serious need of recalibration. Take some time to read up on the Muslim (Moslem alternate spelling) Brotherhood, and verify it for yourself. Various news gathering organizations around the world, with differing points of view, have noted this old but worrisome connection to a set of racist beliefs. Although the MB is not currently listed as a terrorist organization, and have disavowed the events of 9-11, Bin Laden of Al Queda has publicly praised this group, leaving many to wonder what the connection is and what their ultimate goal might be. The MB is indeed a hard-line Islamist organization, calling for their own strict interpretation of the Qu'ran, as well as the implementation of Sharia law.

Perhaps you have a good chunk of reading to do to catch up to those of us who already know what is what.

Translation - "I don't have the proof to back up what I said".

Also - your argument that they must be evil because Bin Laden said something good about them is pathetic. Do you want to be condemned based on who says nice things about you? Really?

You said there were "strong ties" - that's a very strong statement to make - back it up or accept that you're just parroting talking points.

B.

 

[diklik]

Translation - "I don't have the proof to back up what I said".

Also - your argument that they must be evil because Bin Laden said something good about them is pathetic. Do you want to be condemned based on who says nice things about you? Really?

You said there were "strong ties" - that's a very strong statement to make - back it up or accept that you're just parroting talking points.

B.

I never contend with those who haven't the decency to use their intellect. I did my research, now do yours. Have a very nice day.

 

[gb2000ie]

I never contend with those who haven't the decency to use their intellect. I did my research, now do yours. Have a very nice day.

I am using my intellect - I'm picking gaping holes in your spurious arguments (nice job ignoring those points).

Saying something outrageous and then expecting others to go off and search for evidence to back up your claim is about as intellectually lazy as you can get. If you really had done any real research you'd have the facts to hand, or at least be able to provide ONE reference. I think you heard some talking head say this on Fox News, or on talk radio, and you decided to just take their word for it. There's nothing decent about parroting neocon talking points and then running away when challenged to back them up.

All I've seen here is yet more proof that when someone reverts to the Hitler argument they have nothing useful to contribute.

B.

 

[ritsuka]

Perhaps I might equally state that you should not repeat the substance of Al Jazeera press releases, since they have their particular slant and point of view. One does not need to subscribe to Neocon thinking (which I abhore) to do some research and discover some less-than-desirable friendships between various organizations.

I don't watch Al-Jazeera (it's pretty difficult to in the US...), and I won't make an assumption on where you get your news from. However, the pov that you expressed is very much so in line with neocon propaganda. They can only see the events in Egypt for how they may undermine US and Israeli policy; they have no sympathy and trust in the Egyptian people realizing what they want for themselves, but raise the ludicrous idea of a caricature of the muslim brotherhood taking over just because it suits them.

We've all seen by now how the elite politicos in the US like to define dictatorship not by degree of democracy, but whether they personally like the policies of the state. This is all inherently hostile to the creation of a democratic Egypt, and attempts to pre-emptively write it off as being "like Iran" (a regime not as bad as Saudi Arabia but one that works against US policies) or run by "nazi-sympathizers" implying that any change in Egyptian foreign policy as a result of democracy will be motivated by anti-semitism instead of compassion for the Palestinians or Egyptian sovereignty over it's own borders. But Egyptians aren't to that point yet; they (christians, muslims, labor unions, young people, students, atheists...) have united under the banner of getting Mubarak out.

Muslims in the middle east had nothing to do with world war ii, and muslims, like many other European minorities, were killed in the holocaust. So no, there is no connection, and the attempt to blacken every single muslim organization into radical nazi terrorists really doesn't hold up in this case.

 

[diklik]

I don't watch Al-Jazeera

Perhaps not, but your description and phraseology pertaining to the Muslim Brotherhood is almost identical to puff pieces of that organization on Al Jazeera and several other sympathetic outlets. BTW, Al Jaz is easily receivable via satellite or on the internet. I like tuning them in to get a different perspective on news, not that I necessarily believe their take on events any more or less than North American/European views. None of the news agencies are truthful, they all have a particular slant and editorial perspective.

Opinions are fine, but when you accuse me of uttering Neocon rhetoric while at the same time you post material that seemingly comes from sources known for their support of the organization in question, it's kind of obvious that your sources are not unbiased.

For your info, SOME Muslims in the middle east had a great deal of connection to WW2. General Erwin Rommel of the Nazi Expeditionary forces was known as the Desert Fox. He led military campaigns in North Africa and made numerous contacts with various Sheiks, Muslim leaders and others in the Middle East, with a view toward establishing military and diplomatic connections post war. A simple Google and Wiki search will reveal this. It's not Neocon fiction but historical fact.

 

[diklik]

I am using my intellect - I'm picking gaping holes in your spurious arguments (nice job ignoring those points).

All I've seen here is yet more proof that when someone reverts to the Hitler argument they have nothing useful to contribute.

B.

It's a lovely day in my neighborhood, I hope yours is as nice.